SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hello, I'm Neil. I grew up in a login camp. Top hundred foot trees to pay for my education and spent time in places most people haven't heard of. From the Russian flurries to the halls of politics. But this podcast is not about me. It's about the people I've met who are at a desert resort in California in old neighborhoods and across the lifetime of terms I never saw coming. Some episodes will make you laugh. Others might make you positive. Season one of Upper Creek with Neil is about the great grief and joy that shape real people. So if you've ever felt like you're a little stuck, a little strange, or just plain curious about how others are making it through them all, pull up a chair. New episodes will arrive this morning. Find us at UpperCreekwithNeil NEML.com or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening and have a great day. Alright, gentlemen, where are we anyway? Grand Forks BC, as I recall. And Jim, you're quite a golf player, I understand.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

A golf player? Yeah. That's about a spirit golf. Did you ever try hockey? I fooled him for a few years. Yeah. Yeah. So how many teams did you play with? I started off in Boston, uh, traded Toronto, uh went to the World Hockey and played in Ebonton, Cleveland. Uh ended up going back to the NHL in Chicago, and then finally uh finished my career in Ebenton. I came in with Bobby Orr and went out with Gretzky. Two of the greats. Two of the greatest, yeah. Who was the greatest in your mind? I'd say Bobby Orr. Yeah. I mean, there's I mean, Gretzky was good, but uh, you know, I mean, Orr just controlled everything. He was so so good. But these guys are so classy, all these guys. I mean, Gretzky's I was only there for three, four months because I had a back operation, and my claim to fame was I took him duck hunting for a couple times. So, but uh no, Gretzky was good. But there was Gordy Howe, there were so many great players. It's hard to compare, it depends what year it is. So uh yeah, no, I I would still say Orr is probably the best player I've ever seen. Are you still in touch with uh Bobby Orr? Yeah, we go fishing when Boston's a great alumni. We end up going to brought my wife and my back twice now for the Stanley Cup and uh the 100th anniversary, and uh I mean a class organization, so we see each other quite a bit, but uh you know, most of the guys live out east, most of them in Florida, and either Palm Springs or they're mostly buddies, but there's not many that live out west now and come back home.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

What do you see in the biggest difference in the current young players and those greats like the GOAT Bobby Orr?

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Well, I think the training and the knowledge that they have, and I mean, you know, there was only six teams when I started, and you know, the guys were playing until they're 40 years old. And uh now, you know, guys are starting at their 18. Yet, you know, if you made it when you were 20, you were lucky. And uh the players train so hard now and they're so talented. I mean, I if you look at the old videos which we see once in a while when I played, and I go I'm embarrassed that we skated so slow. Wow. So it's a whole different game. And I think it's a lot to do with training, and as a young person, I mean, you know, we we practice once a week. These guys practice, you know, uh every day as a kid, you know, that that makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Yeah. There's books written about you, or book, and uh, I've had a chance to thumb through a few pages. You were kind of like uh from uh the state side, you look kind of like Burt Reynolds. You kind of had that moxy look and kind of had a good look and charm and did all right on the ice. So you you did well.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Well, it was fun. Yeah, I mean uh hockey was good to me and still is. Uh, you know, the NHL alumni and um the NHL have treated us pretty good. Uh you know, once things changed with new our alumni and our our uh player reps and everything else, things have changed for the money that's around now is just unbelievable. And uh the NHL had come back and helped us out a lot. But you know, it's a dream as a young kid in Canada. It was a religion when I was a kid. Every Saturday, every Sunday, you only had a radio, we had no TV, and you listened to hockey. Your dream was to be a hockey player. Everybody's dream was, you know, if you made it, it was it was you know, a dream come true.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

How old were you when you were drafted?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

I went to uh the Esteban Blues, which was owned by Boston, and I was uh 15 years old. I left home and went there to Saskatchewan, and I signed a C form uh for $250, and uh there was there's 20 players in the team. They don't sign everybody to C form because a lot of them, you know, they don't they don't think they'll make the NHL. So I signed a C form for $250, and I was Boston Bruno's property.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Wow, wow. What does that mean, a C4?

SPEAKER_01 5:05

It means that they have the owner rights. Uh you know, they in the old days there was no draft, so we were owned by Boston-owned Niagara Falls, Oshawa where Bobby Orr was, and Esteban. They owned that team and they would sponsor it, and they own those players. Um, Montreal had all of Quebec. They couldn't, nobody could get a player out of Quebec. Uh Detroit had Hamilton, Weyburn, uh places like that. So that's all those players that went there were their property. So that was the draft came in in, I believe, in the late 70s, I think, but I'm not sure exactly. And Gary Monaghan was the first, he was a friend of mine who played in Toronto, was the first draft player drafted.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Do you remember when you were first on the ice?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

I still played junior. I had a back operation when I was 18, so I would have probably been there a year or two before, but they brought me back to training camp, which was a month long. You got to train camp to get in shape, and that's when Orr and Boston had the great teams. So, you know, I was a thrill to be around Esposillo and Cheevers and all these guys, and Bobby Orr as a as an 18-year-old. So uh you play a few exhibition games, and then uh you know, I it it was kind of a blurry, you get you get you you get to those big stadiums and you look around, you go, holy where am I? You know, 20,000 people to Chicago and things like that. So yeah, it was uh you know, for a little boy who uh come from a town of 250 people with no uh no not enough money, uh it was it was really something.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

How uh many games did your parents were they able to watch or go to? Is that difficult?

SPEAKER_01 6:44

My dad only saw me play one game in his lifetime. Uh my mother, nobody ever came to minor hockey. They just wasn't a thing. They just sure I played soccer, I played ball, and uh I don't think I spent much time at home because through through high school, but yeah, although they never had an opportunity because I moved to Saskatchewan, and then eventually at the end, uh my dad passed away fairly early. But my mother, we started bringing her to hockey games, and she would come to Toronto or Chicago or you know, uh, so she got to see some of the NHL games.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

That's great, that's great. Then when did you step up to the majors?

SPEAKER_01 7:19

I was uh I started with Boston, I think it was 67-68, the year they won the Stanley Cup. And then I was uh I played them one year, went to the minors for half a year, and then I started the next year because one of the top centers got hurt and I took his place. But ironically, we played uh Toronto in the uh their farm team, and uh I think I had a couple fights with a couple of their tough guys, so it was destined that I was gonna be wanted this my type of style player, so and they were cleaning house because they had won the Stanley Cup in '67 with a bunch of old guys. So when it came Christmas time, uh I was traded to Toronto. So I and they were in last place. So it wasn't a good deal for me.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Rod uh Vatcher's here with us, and Rod, you've uh as a kid been able to watch the greats and see them play. And when do you recall first meeting at Jim?

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Do when do I when did I first meet him? Hear about him and well, uh through Leanne, who plays with uh Jim's wife Caroline. They play pickleball together. And uh so then I start I actually didn't know much about Jim, to be honest. And Jim took me through his uh shop, actually, the old fire hall, and the memorabilia that's in there, and the stories that Jim can tell you about his early days in the NHL were just it was it was I was just kind of engulfed in it all because this is an era of time that uh I grew up in Montreal and we had some really great hockey teams through the 70s. So he played in some of those, and uh it was it was just an interesting time. I actually lost touch with hockey for a number of years. Um, I don't know if it what why that was, it just stopped watching and uh I've kind of gotten back into it again. So it's kind of fun to to meet Jim and uh hear the stories from yesteryear.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

And uh do you remember hearing or seeing him on TV?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

No, I don't actually.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Well um growing up in Montreal, I mean, we saw basically all the Canadian games, and the only time not that Montreal and Toronto didn't meet or some of the other teams that Jim played with, but uh it I I followed the Canadians pretty heartily.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Jim, out of curiosity, was that difficult to transition as a Canadian player and then go on and play for American teams?

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Well, it was um, you know, I think everybody wanted to play like the Rangers in Boston and things like that. They were great sports cities. So I mean, you had the opportunity to go. Um, I was a true Canadian. I loved uh, you know, if I could play for Toronto, that was my dream. But um in our era, we never you never associated, you never thought you'd get traded. Like the uh trades were not didn't happen unless it was a big block blockbuster trade. So uh, but yeah, no, it uh people didn't mind getting traded to the New Yorker. It gives you a second life a lot of time, you know, things weren't going well, so you got traded, so it gives you a new life. When I went to Toronto, I got to play more because in Boston that we had three really good centermen that you know there's no way I'm gonna knock them out and play ahead of them. So when I went to Toronto, uh, you know, they only had Dave Keon and a few other guys, and it gave me that opportunity to play.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

And what was it like when you you know, coming from a Saskatchewan or Albertan team and playing those guys from the East?

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Well, it was always the East-West uh games in training camp, and you know, I think the the East always admired the Westerns because we were we liked to drink beer and we were tougher. Like we uh, you know, then and we had more fun. We were always joyable, and uh it seems the easterners were kind of uh stuck up people. We it was always a rivalry. I grew up, my parents uh were farmed and they they hated the east because they always felt the west got the raw deal in politics and everything. So you grew up with that mentality. And I always uh we know that the bonuses when I signed the East got double the money we did, and they didn't make the NHL even some of these guys, but they favored the uh the Eastern kids, and uh then they found out very quickly that the Western kids were tougher and they came to play, and they were either worked in a farm or worked in a bush or whatever they were, and they were uh they were tougher kids.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Do you remember that time when you were you felt you were just really passed over, they didn't see your talent, and you uh lost out to another kid?

SPEAKER_01 11:45

No, not really. I you know, I worked hard. I when I was on the ice, and you know, yeah, you know, there's always that uh you're trying to beat the best players to get ahead of that player. I played center, and you know, there was always just was pretty good sentiment in the NHL. There was only six teams, so you know there's a whole team sitting in the miners that you have a couple bad games or a bad year, you can be gone or traded. So I I was very fortunate that way. I worked hard and uh people I got along with the teammates. Uh teammates made a big difference if you were a guy, uh the team didn't like you if you're a hot dog or whatever it is like they have some of these guys today. Um, you know, the players could uh eliminate you pretty fast. You could be left out with the team. So uh I was very fortunate that way. I had some really good friends and still have those people as friends now.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

What was it like, as I recall, uh there was a time where you really weren't able to talk to the other players, other players of the other teams?

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Well, that was what uh when they had the original six, and even when the world hockey was starting to come in the 72, they didn't want you to talk because they didn't want anybody to know what to sell, which we had no made no money at all. My first contract was $11,000, and uh uh the person working in the grocery store made the same amount of money as us, and we had no pension. So uh the big thing was with the owners just keep these guys, and if you were ever seen talking to another teammate, you're either fined or sent to the miners. So many guys were sent to the miners for associating with uh with other teammates. So uh you gotta be it was really uh they controlled everything you did.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

And uh so you started at 250, 250 dollars. And I've got to ask it, what was your high?

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Um I signed with Evanton, uh Ballard, who was on the Toronto May Base, he made me promise that I would come back and sign with them because we were we had we would had some good young people uh Sittler and a few uh we were going the young so but I wanted to own a fishing lodge in the Arctic, which I did, and I went up there and as I got off the airplane in Eventon, uh Dr. Aller, who owned a team, uh the management met me there and they offered me $125,000, $75,000 bonus, a Jeep if they owned a Jeep dealership, and they uh bought my house because I had no furniture. We had two lawn chairs in the house, and they bought me so I signed, and they had a big shopping cart full of bills, and I went down Jasper Avenue. And the story is Ballard saw this and he swore I'd never play back for Toronto. So when I wanted to come back to the NHL, I had the opportunity. They stole my rights, they end up giving my race to Chicago because they didn't want him to do it with me. So uh, you know, that's the dollars that we changed from $11,000, and then and Ballard was gonna give me a $500 raise. And here the greatest hockey player that uh Toronto had is David Keon. He was making $18,500.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

$18,500.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

And he was uh also and he was the greatest player that they ever had, and he I think he has four or five starter cups in the era. Um so he you know, here I end up going to the world hockey, and because nobody thought this league would go. Everybody said it was it would fail, but uh you know, we took a gamble on it, and Dr. Hollard put my money in the bank, which nobody realized. The money was all there before I even started, it was an escrow and everything. So um you know they were uh it was really sad to see that uh the owners kept a lot of these players back, that were great hockey players that they made no money, and it happened to Hull and you know, Hull, Bobby Hull left for a million dollars, and I think he was I'm not sure what he made per year, but nobody told you what your salaries were. That was one thing they kept that really tight.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

And today, what is a what does a hockey player start out at?

SPEAKER_01 15:50

I think minimum wage is close to a million dollars. Wow, and you know, I'd like to play a month only, just uh a few more choice. But uh, you know, you score five goals and you're making a million dollars, you know, in our era. I scored 19 goals and I was the second highest scorer in Toronto, and you know, I made eleven thousand dollars. So it uh but it's it's just it's time, you know. I mean look at look at the cost of trucks and the cost of everything else. Sure. I'm really happy for the players now. I've had a good life. Hockey's been so good to me. Um, you know, we've had I've had some major back problems and and uh things like that. And my wife, my late wife, had cancer, her bills were in the thousands, fifty thousand dollars, and the players paid for it all, or all the guys sent money to pay her bills. So hockey's been hockey's been good to me. Could in that end of it. Could still I can go down the street and people stop and say, I remember you, and you know, every month I get probably five, six autographs uh to sign, and I charge five dollars uh autograph and I get that American money, which is nice. But it's just you know, and every all the players charge all because they used to sell these cards. I used to buy hockey cards for 35 cents and give the cards to kids. Now my cards are $85, $60, and then I thought, yeah, that's my signature, you know. So the people are getting the cards. Do you still have your cards? Oh, yeah. I get them every month. I get like I got lost to buy. I used to buy them all the time. Sure. Yeah, so it's it's uh, you know, the that end of it, you keep yourself involved with hockey.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Who was the first major uh player you recall having a card for?

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Oh, gee. We never thought much of it like at that time. At that time, yeah. Hockey cards, you'd get them, and you just my kids used to play with them. I had a Ty Cobb baseball, and my kids used to play with it. And uh I ended up giving it uh because we had some major law uh uh legal bills when I was suing Eagleson and the NHL for what happened with a disability insurance. So I had to give that for him, and I'm not sure how many thousand dollars he got for it, but he was happy to take the taekwondo baseball. My kids used to play with it. I had Tim Hortons, who owns Tim Hortons Donuts, I had his jersey because they'd give you a jersey after every year. And uh when my wife was having a problem, Parker Hurst cards, uh Tim uh Carl Brewer phoned me and said, Would you sell the card? We'll give you some money, so they ended up getting me $3,000 for Tim Horton's sweater. I just got a call last year from a bro, uh, a card, a memorabilia dealer in Boston who's a friend of mine. He said, Do you still have that sweater from Tim Horton? He said, I got a guy who gave you $75,000 for it.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yeah, so that's the car, that's what these this stuff was worth. Like, you know, the Tim Horton jersey would be, you know, but my kids used to wear it. And it had an A on it, and I took the A off because I was embarrassed that I was never the Sitz said captain. So, but they used to wear it all the time, go on Halloween and put the jersey on. So and I had I used to have Gretzky sticks and ore sticks, and we yeah, we always get them. And um, I just gave them away. We'd give them the hug. So the value of those things now are unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Well, you've had an exciting career. I guess I'd like to ask. You learned a lot of things from that game, and it taught you a lot in the pain and the grief and all you went through it. But as you applied that after you got out of hockey, what do you what do you think you took most from hockey and applied to your life?

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Well, I think after I retired, it was mistrusted with a lot of things that happened because of you know the Eagleson who embezzled you know half of my money. And I lost me, he we found out that he owned uh part of the shares of lawyer, he had shares a lawyer in London, his buddies, and they would pay who they wanted the disability. So I ended up I was totally broke. And uh they hauled me in the back of a station wagon for two years because I couldn't walk after I retired because it was my three they my second operation they nicked one of my nerves when I did surgery and nobody told me. So we found out so we the lawyer got involved and we brought a lawsuit against them. And uh, but it was an uphill battle because Eagleson was so powerful. He ran the NHL and I could get no records, get no medical records. Uh Chicago said that uh there was a fire or a flood and all my records went, which would have really helped me.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

And uh and there was workmen's compensation. Uh if I would have claimed workmen's compensation, I'd have got two-thirds of my salary for the rest of my life in uh in Illinois. But he owned, he insured players his own with the with the uh with workmen's compensation. So he denied all that and there was no documents. So it was I learned you know, I learned a lot. A lot of players learned that how the mistrust with some of the players, those people aren't anyway. They don't treat play athletes like that anymore. Same as baseball or football. I mean, the athletes have have it pretty good now. Uh they're still the odd guy that they try to get rid of, but you know, things that happened to me and a lot of other players would never have happened again. And uh, you know, there would have been some major lawsuits going with you know with the teams and the owners.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

So do they have a better means of taking care of the older players now? Does uh do you have any uh feedback from that?

SPEAKER_01 21:11

I mean are you Yeah, we have an alumni, it's pretty strong, and they have uh, but there's there's a lot of uh a lot of players involved. They do they we have a major problem in drug and alcohol that we have uh that I think takes up a lot of the program. Um but we also have uh you know a lot of the players in my era especially used used to like drink beer and a lot of it, there was no drug problems at all. But uh there was in the starting in the eighties, there was a lot of major, you know, there got there was drug problems and still is today. I there's still we still hear rumors about uh, you know, players getting in trouble, not just hockey but in other sports. So um you know it's it's it's that's uh you know, uh athletes have a pretty easy life. You know, I I l I left home at fifteen and I think I was pampered all my life and you you take advantage sometimes. Sometimes it's a detriment to you, but I think that, you know, my background and my family and everything else, we we weathered the storm.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Sure. What age were you when you retired?

SPEAKER_01 22:17

I was uh twenty-nine twenty-nine years old. Yeah. I still had two years left in my contract, and again that was another thing where they tried to send me to the miners. I couldn't walk, and it was a it was a bad scene. And Wirtz owned a random league. He was the governor of the Holy Night Shell. So we had hearings and they were all fixed. Um and it didn't just happen to me, it happened to a lot of other players that you know with disability and sure and all that. So yeah, he was a bad person. He was not a nice man.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Hmm. Was that unusual to get uh um sign on at the age of 15? That seems awful young.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Well, I left home. I okay, you know, I asked my mother one time, why'd you why why did you let me go? And she said that we didn't, you just would go. She said, We knew you were gonna go, so you left. So I got on a bus and went to Saskatchewan and tried out the team. And I think for two years I told her I was going to school because she wanted me to go to school, but I didn't. And uh, you know, um it was uh it was probably one of the best teams you could ever go to. The fellow who owned it, the Scotty Monroe and Ernie McLean, uh were just unbelievable for young people. I mean, they uh you learned to say please and thank you. I never knew how to shake a hand. I would, you know, you had to meet somebody, you you stood up and you shook your hand, and I didn't know anything about that. We our family, you know, again come from a poor farming town, you didn't do that. Yeah, my dad, you know, was quiet. My mother ran the ran the roost, we called her Hurricane Annie. And she wrote around a willow switch, but she had three brothers that live with us, so we, you know, we uh it was uh you don't you you just didn't learn that thing. Nobody taught you that stuff. Uh so it was pretty important that I go to a team, and you know, there was a lot of other players that went to different teams that didn't have the same sport that we that we had in Esther.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Yeah. Do you remember that time when you said I made it? That moment where you just said, I've I've made it.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Yeah, it was it was I you know, I unfortunately had the uh back operation I was eight, and that really sent me back. And I still have the letter where the Boston Bruins sent me a letter from the doctor that they had they sent me to have a medical, and the player, the doctor said, This player will never play professional hockey with his back. And so I guess I guess I proved them wrong. So uh, you know, that was you know, yeah, yeah. I think it made me work harder. And I I don't know where I would have gone if I wouldn't have played hockey. I'd been living in the bush someplace in the north, but it you know it worked out perfect for me. I you know, however it happened, the good Lord looked after me. Sure, sure. I know I I end up uh you know playing. And it was tough because I I had you know the last couple of years I couldn't tie my skates up and things like that. Uh I had to go down my knee to tie my skate because my back was so bad, but I still played and I wanted to play and the money was too good to not play.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

And uh tell me about that part where you uh said you got the guys in the corner.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Well, my philosophy was when I played, intimidation is a big part. So, you know, I if you being Centerman and being I I like that style of play. I you know, I like to get a little tussle once in a while. And you know, if I if I'm gonna fight somebody, especially if they're tough, uh, you know, one or two punches is all you need. And if I go in a corner, my gloves are dropped, and you know, and uh a funny story about I guess we're talking about uh fighting, which I'm not that proud of, but it was intimidation war. Nobody got hurt. We were never boxers, we never took boxing lessons, and nobody was uh, you know, gonna hurt anybody. But John DeMico, I played uh baseball with uh with the referees and linesmen in Toronto in the summertimes. So uh and uh so John D'Amico uh we go out and have a few beer after. So he'd always say, Well, we get in a fight, and he was a big linesman, he was over six foot and a big big man, so he said, You're gonna have one punch, he says, I'm gonna grab the guy first, and you got one last punch. Because a lot of guys would wrestle with the linesmen and swear at him and push on, and you know, some of them got hurt. But I, yeah, once the fight's over, I'm not interested. I, you know, I shake hands with the guy. But that was always funny because he always said you got one last it happened a few times where he would grab the opposing player, and I got one last last bunch of them. Uh it was, it was, you know, it was that that was all part of the game. It was part of my game, and that's why I was respected. And you know, a lot of teams wanted me to play. And I mean, the one game I played against Minnesota, uh, you hear about the Carlson brothers, the the Hansen brothers in that movie. I fought all three of them in one shift. And uh, you know, so it was the big tough guy came at me and I went, oh no, I didn't want to fight him. He was he's too tough.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

And again, you you can tell because you grab somebody's hand, you put your hand in their hand, and you go, holy cats, and he started squeezing, and you go, Oh, I think and then you know, then you want to go, and that's how kind of usually happens, and you know, you get back and you you throw a couple punches, but nobody really I think that's kind of the criticism we've found today, you know, at least uh those that don't understand the hockey about the game and they they focused on the fighting and they don't realize that fighting was just a part of the game, if you will. But as as fighting changed as you look back to when you were playing to where it is today?

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yeah, so well these some of these guys are so strong and they take lessons, they do boxing, and I mean the the power they have in a hit, like we, you know. I mean, I broke my hand two, three times because I didn't know how to I didn't close my fist fast enough, and I broke my fingers. So, you know, that's these guys nowadays know how to fight and they can hurt somebody. I mean, they you see guys one punch and they knock the guy out, he's got a concussion. Well, in our era, that very seldom happened. I mean, you know, we were all potter puffs compared to what these guys like, you know, they they take lessons now about fighting and sure to angle yourself when you're holding somebody, you know, if the guy's right-handed, you move to your to your left so he can't throw that punch, direct punch at you. In our days, we just stood there and I turned my head down. Sometimes I couldn't even comb my hair because my my head had lumps on the top because I had been my head and I got one punch in. But again, you'd get two, three punches, and that's about it.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Did you always have helmets?

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Never wore a helmet. Uh last year I played I wore a helmet.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

And uh that's when the league made it uh at the sign of the documentary.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Do you remember how many concussions you had over the years?

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Well, you never thought of it. I can never you know I mean uh uh probably haven't I probably had some concussions but never never thought of it. And I uh they had some studies done, but I haven't uh been involved with any of them, at least.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Um now when you get together with your friends, your guys you you played with years back, what what is the primary thing that comes up?

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Well, it's just so funny. The uh it's so neat to get back with old timers, but they start telling stories, and you kind of forget, I forget half the stories. I mean, I could tell them once you get with a bunch of guys and they start telling stories and stories I've never heard before. You know, we traveled by train and uh they were characters. Like, I mean, you had some Stan McKita was the biggest jokester in the world. Like he if he wore a suit, he'd cut the legs out of your pants. And you sit in in LA with uh suit with red legs color. And you know, uh you'd sit there and if you fell asleep on the airplane, we all wore gray pants with blue blazes, so we had to wear jackets and ties all the time, and that was you know something I really respected and proud of. But they would put an ice cube on your groin, you're trying, and you'd be falling asleep, you'd wake up and it's all soaking buttons. And you'd never wanted to end, they'd let your shoelaces. This is on airplanes, they'd let your shoelaces on fire. The airplanes have a little batch because they didn't smoke cigarettes, so they'd let your shoelaces on. Or we'd be sitting in the airport, reading that people would be reading newspapers because we always have to get there two hours early. People would light the newspaper and fire, and we'd all walk away. And here's this guy reading newspapers. And this went on day and day and out. And you know in the old days, if your sweater wasn't hung up, you knew you didn't play that game, or if your skates were near, you got traded. Like there was not so guys would be characters, they would do that. They'd take the guy's sweater, and some of the guys would start crying because they figured they got traded. And you know, they would be in the game. So yeah, it was uh there was it it went on. So it was a lot of fun. Like we, you know, I mean, you always had your 12 beer after the game, and you know, you'd go in if you're on the the train, especially a lot of guys gambled. I never gambled, I was I I don't believe in gambling, so but a lot of guys played cards, and there was some problems with that because some people lost some money, lost their car, things like that. But um, it was always something going on. There's always you know a lot of fun going on the train.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

And did you see that involvement of the bookies and that that we received?

SPEAKER_01 31:18

Uh it was in Boston especially. Uh you know, there was bookies hanging around. You'd you know, uh Sears was in the horse business. Uh you know, and uh I met the first woman jockey, all the big jockeys in San Anita when we played. Um yeah, the the bookies were always there. And Boston was uh, you know, the mafie were all over the place. They looked after you, they they love athletes and they always want to get scoops. And I think that was in every city. Yeah uh we were there the day before in uh Lindell's in uh in Detroit when Jimmy Hoffa went missing the next day. Wow. And he was at the Lindell's in Detroit. And we had the FBI would come in every every day, every beginning every year, because they have a FBI, retired FBI guy looks after each team. If you get in trouble, you got a number to call. And you'd be sitting there in the meeting and the general manager, and he said, uh, hey Harrison, you were at uh this nightclub at three in the morning, and you gotta be careful. That nightclub, and I'm going, oh gee, friends. That's not a good thing. So yeah, they uh they uh they were around all the time. They and we always hung out in places because you know that those were good bars.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Sure. How about connecting with other uh sports personalities from other teams or not necessarily other teams, but other um other sports like baseball or football or whatever? Did you connect much with them?

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Yeah, the big cities were uh were uh in Boston, uh uh Harlton, all the guys, because uh Rick Stanison owned was part of Bachelor's 3, so those guys always hang around. Um in in Chicago, all the baseball players, because you'd always do appearances and that, and you were always together with them. And to me, it was always a thrill to meet some of those. I love baseball, and uh I was always thrilled to meet some of the baseball players. And but after when we after retired, my son uh works with the NBA, he looked after Kobe Bryant for the last six months before. So I we got to be with Kobe Bryant and sent us to Lemo to go see some of the games and Shaq O'Neill he looked after. Great, great. He looked after Blake Griffin for years, and um he's still involved with he looks after certain athletes, he's a medical therapist. So I enjoyed meeting him now as some of these famous athletes as much as I did when we played, because you don't think of it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

I mean Mickey Mandel was there and guys like that, but you don't think, you know, and I didn't even think about getting their autographs. I should have got some autographs because I I can make some money, but yeah, you you you meet him and you don't think about it.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Who's the most famous personality you can think of that you met?

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Well, I think Kobe Bryant was uh when I met after hockey, but uh you know how about during hockey? Um yeah, Mohammed Ali and George Chevello when they Mohammed Ali uh boxed in in Toronto, and uh you know, I mean, still I'm still thrilled to have been a friend of Bobby Orr. We went fishing a few times up in the Arctic and that those kind of guys. I mean, I don't know, there's something about a great athlete, they're so classy. I mean, you look at Crosby, you look at Gretzky, like I don't know how they could be such complete people. And Mohammed Ali was the same way. I mean, the things he did, and you know, and you hear about baseball players, and and I don't hear a lot about even the football players, just but the top the real stars are stars in the world, as far as I'm concerned. They stand out. Stand out, they're just classy people. And I always think, why couldn't I be laying out? What can why can I say those kind of things when I was, you know, because I played with them, and but they're that that makes them above us and uh common player like Gretzky was just is such a classy guy. I I was coaching in Mushtaw, he took the team to Eventon, and I oh, you know, I it was 10 years later that uh that I had taken Gretzky hunting. So I saw him looking around, and he was talking to somebody and he said uh he pointed up to me who was who was. So actually he came up and he came and said hi to me. And I thought, well, that's pretty classic. You know, he didn't have to. There was tons of people, you know, looking at him, trying to get it to see who he was or to get his autograph or spend time with him. But he made an effort to go there. So that's the kind of class a lot of those guys are. Crosby's the same way nowadays, and you know, I think it's you know, there uh there's something about an athlete, uh elite athlete, I think, that has been tangible that uh you can't you you can't train or you can't make them. And uh, you know, it was it was something I really noticed all the time about some of those great athletes.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Do you uh enjoy watching young hockey players now? And can you kind of identify who the ones you pick out and say that that guy's kids got?

SPEAKER_01 35:53

Yeah, it's really tough because they start so young and a lot of times they don't mature, and then now what happens at 18 years old, if you're not good enough, you don't go any place. Well, you know, but to me, you still got a chance if you're 20 years old, 21, and if you go to college and you're 24 years old, you're maturing better and you're stronger and everything. But now in hockey, especially, they've taken these kids so young, and it's become a racket where they have these camps and they you know you pay $30,000, send them to a city, and they build them and whatever they do. But they're they're really good at 10, 12 years old, but they'll never improve that much because they become so good. So that's that's it's really hard to judge, you know, the players. I had hockey schools for you know all through the Arctic and everything. I had my company was called NHL Boys, we used ex-NHL players, and uh it was really tough to uh the older kids, you know, the the young kids were so good, and then I always thought, boy, that kid's gonna be in the NHL someday and never heard of him again, never never played junior or anything. So uh uh I think that's it's really tough to pick who's gonna be a late bloomer, I guess. But I I guess guys like McDavid and some of the superstars, they're superstars. They're scoring 40 goals in midget hockey or something like that. But um, you know, it's uh it's it's tough for a journeyman hockey player to figure out who's gonna be because look at some of the players like Ang Troitier, who played for the New York Islanders, was an all-star. He was drafted 135th or something. So he wasn't a superstar, but he developed and got a chance to play, and he was a Westerner, so he was a tough kid, a native boy. But he was uh he had that tangible that they, you know, a lot of these kids get pampered, I think.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Well, it's it's got to be hard for some of those farm kids that lived out in the prairie and and get to the uh to the matches, the games, and all over their parents is it's a it's an expensive sport to take them to every place.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Well it is now, and I see people mortgage their houses even to uh to send these kids to these camps and they come they're all over the place and they're part of the education program, but it's it's thirty, forty thousand dollars. So, you know, working family, that's extra tax dollars. But in the old days, like every little town in the prairies had an arena, and you know, you skated 24 hours a day, and uh uh you go to school, you had a skating program in the school, after school you went to the rink, the rink was open-free. Uh they had all these little towns were 11 miles apart, so you played lots of little games, and you know, the farmers said that was their entertainment in the wintertime because there was nothing else going on. It was either curling or hockey. And if you'd go to arena in the summertime or in the wintertime, it was packed for even major hockey or you know, so uh it was it was a it developed a lot of family atmosphere and I think a different personality of the person.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Do you remember playing on the farm ponds and off the ranks?

SPEAKER_01 38:44

We used to skate on the road. We had the we used to have the uh I had an old pair of skates that they gave me anger shoe sizes, and then the the guy, the mailman, would come in his caboose with a fire with a horse and delivered the mail, so we'd all hang on the end of the uh and that's how I used to we figured my ankles were so strong because we were on road and sparks were flying, but we played on the roads uh because they never ploughed the roads. Sure. So that was in the old year. We had we had ponds, like we had a pond on our uh property. So we would I had two older brothers, and my mother had three brothers who live with us, so they were all that you know older kids. So I was kind of the one that you know tagged along and played.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

And uh, you know, that's that's why what do you think has changed most in hockey as far as like the equipment and safety and those things when you look back to what you had and what they have today?

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Yeah, I think uh, you know, it's I mean the equipment's something certainly different. The training is just unbelievable. I mean, they trained these kids and they, you know, and the money. I mean, they a lot of people got money to do things. Uh a lot of kids never got the opportunity because they couldn't afford skates. I mean, I was lucky that fellow in Camloops in my minor hockey, he gave me skates every year. Uh for some reason he liked me. And uh he owned the sporting store and he owned Campion Boats, they owned the John Lee family, and uh, you know, it wasn't for him, I don't think I would have played hockey. And a lot of people, you know, you had to have two dollars to have a hamburger to go to a different town. Uh the coach would always pay because you know it's because we just our parents didn't have the money. So um, you know, it's it's it's now the the game has changed so much. The training, the money, and people are their dream is that I've had a lot of parents are living the dream that they didn't have. So they'll pay as much money as they can for their kids. But we have a lot of kids around here even that go to these camps, and after 14, 15 years old, they don't want to go anymore. They don't want to quit hockey, they don't they quit, so it's uh I'm not sure if it's right or wrong or what the right formula is to make an athlete. It's it's an expensive, expensive proposition nowadays.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

Sure. You know, as an American who've always watched Canadian hockey and just admired the pride that Canadians have about their their hockey. Can you explain that?

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Well, like I say, you know, it it's a dream. Uh every stove wants to be a hockey player in Canada. Like I say, it's like a religion. And uh, you know, your dream and you to make it, you know, you're you're proud. We're proud Canadians. We are proud of our flag, we're proud of our freedom and everything else. So it's, you know, to be a Canadian and be a hockey player was the big thing. It's not as much as before, because now Europeans and Russians and Ukrainians and all these countries are sending their kids here at 12, 13 years old, living with people, living the Canadian way, and that's why you see so many Europeans playing the Canadian style of hockey because they're over here at 12, 13 years old. Don Cherry, uh, who was a coach at NHL, was always outspoken and nobody liked him because he would say, Why are we bringing these kids over here? They're having free education, they're getting free hockey, minor hockey, and we're taking the place of a Canadian boy. And it's happened now that if you look at these junior teams, um, you know, five or six players are uh they don't have the imports, they're they're Europeans, and they've taken the place. So it's happened all over the world, I guess, in sports, but you know, look at the European or the Latin Americans and baseball and things like that. So uh but it's really it's really hurt the Canadian hockey end of it. But we're proud. We're proud to be Canadian, and that's that's uh, you know, if you're a hockey player, that's like I say, it's it's a religion. And if you play hockey, you know, you're you're you're uh you're you're you what Canada means.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Yeah. When you watch US and Canada play, does that just stir emotions in you?

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Yeah, I mean uh we always you know cheering for Canada, but a lot of those guys, like they check the current players now, a lot of them were Canadians, their parents were parents, but they lived in they played in the States and they were born the states, so they make a decision who they want to play for because they're dual. I got three grandchildren who are dual, and uh they decide they they're they're competing for Canada, and they're top athletes. And so a lot of those kids that are playing for United States, their fat their parents are Canadian, but they've chosen to play. But uh the United States has developed hockey players. They they went through the school system, which is keep the parents away from the arenas. And they they have good coaches, they pay their coaches. Uh we don't pay our coaches here in minor hockey, and they develop a lot of players, and they got a real good, as they have with Olympic programs and everything, they've done the same thing with hockey, they've developed programs. So when you're 12 years old, you start developing playing for a US uh hockey program. And they, you know, you you weaving ones out, but they they they've done a heck of a job as developing in the hockey end of it. Yeah. Uh the United States has caught up to Canada for sure in women's hockey and men's hockey.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

When you look back, if you were able to share with a young man that was Coming into hockey that you you wish you would have done this or done that differently? Well, maybe my regrets. I have regrets or do you have any regrets about what you would have or what how you would advise a young hockey player today coming into the sport? Um, that you you think back to your own youth. Would there have been things you would have done differently?

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Well, I think in our era, you know, uh we alcohol was a big part of uh of the sports scene. And you know, just because you already had a few beer here, we we learned that it replenishes you. You gotta have two beer to replenish the water, you lose in the game. And you know, I think that you know that that end of it is is pretty strong. Drugs and alcohol are a big part of minor hockey in Canada, which is really the coaches now will have parties and they say, uh, and that's why I got out of working with young people because I was fighting with minor hockey saying, you know, their philosophy was, well, if we don't give them the beer in a hotel room, they're gonna go get in the room, which I think is totally wrong. You've got to be streetwise. And you know, I drank beer, but but my mother ever caught me, or the coach ever caught me, I was either suspended or so when you you become streetwise, and you become streetwise as a hockey player too. Yeah, I think if if the whole thing were pampered too much or athletes, I I would just the biggest thing is training and and and keeping your nose clean and working hard. Uh, that was the biggest thing I would that I regret that I never, you know, I got like in like in my beer more and I I I wanted to train. So uh, you know, that was one of the things that I think I would pass on to young people, just you know, work hard and keep your nose clean.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

Stay clean. Yeah, yeah. Do you recall uh players that just got in a bad situation and think, oh, if they would have changed or not gone there or done this, it would have been could have been a great player.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

But yeah, I mean it was a lot of it happened in the NHL. Like, you know, a lot of guys uh you know compromised. Yeah. And it well, there's so many good players played in the miners, and you know, the same thing, you know, you ride the bus for 12 hours, you know, what are you gonna do? Eat ham sandwiches or then so they drank beer, and you know, it it it became a uh it was a big problem for years only because that was the lifestyle. But now I think the players are a lot smarter, but some aren't. Some some are into the the drug end of it. And I know I think legalizing marijuana doesn't help. I mean, you know, everybody's into that right now. So um, you know, you know, um it's it's it's really hard to say what uh what really makes the athlete and what what you have to stay clean on, and you know it's it's good to have fun once in a while, but you gotta be careful.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

You know, you mentioned earlier about how the some of the players just had class. You could you knew they were just a great player. Does that kind of bother you when you see uh some of these professional players, they they just strut the stuff? I mean, they just the gold chains and the cool cars and they they just strut it. But is that really the game?

SPEAKER_01 46:58

I mean, I love the Blue Jays, but I see when once this Guerrero hits a home run, he does that little fancy thing. Like to me, that's showboarding. And but it from what I hear, every the the newspapers like it, uh, TV likes it, and but I think it especially football is just the hot dog, and it's just uh you know, you don't have to do that. And but that's the way the games are gone, and you know, I see it more and more in hockey also now that uh you know the players are being more of and I'm not sure if if it sells the game or not, but they say it does, so you know you want more of a personality of of these players, but uh you know, I don't agree with it.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

But Rod, when you think about it, what's the what's the one question you really want to ask a player of the greatness that Jim has and the people he's met about just what you've seen from your perspective is watching these great players play?

SPEAKER_00 47:53

Um I think it would be what were what were those relationships like, like in between you and your fellow players? Like it sounds to me like you're a very close-knit group that still to this day are you know, you're together in so many ways, or you know, whether it's through alumni or whatever, but it feels like these these relationships that you gained are are lifetime memories and and lifetime friendships that aren't going anywhere. Like you're just you're bonded through hockey.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

Yeah, I think I think in sports it's like that. I mean, it's you know, I my kids went through you know uh college and things like that, their lifelong friendships are are there. And I think in hockey, you know, I mean I don't see Bobby Orr for 15 years. We we go to a reunion and we're best of buddies were hugging and talking about old times, and you know, I knew that and if anybody has got in trouble or needed something, uh most of the players would would jump up. You have the odd guy that we're on a team that just didn't fit in, and you know, they're they were sorry, but most of the guys were very close family, and I think in sports they talk about, you know, we're a family, the good ball teams are like that, and uh hockey was was like that about, you know, that uh very close. To me, I think Canadians are very down-to-earth people, uh, and you know, now it's changing a little bit because we we have a lot of immigrants or different people coming into the country. But in the old days, you know, a lot of these people worked hard, especially the Western people, my parents and a lot of most of the parents were hard-working farmers or whatever they were in business. Uh, you know, times were tough, and um you were a family looked after. I mean, I every Sunday there was people at our house having we were poor people, but I know there was a couple of other farmers having dinner with us, so it was you're you grew up with that being you know close and helping each other out, and I think that's the mentality that we brought to the game is that we were, you know, you you look after each other, and it's been like that for they said certainly I had that feeling, and I still have it.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

Do you remember the last game you either your uh either your parents uh saw you and your greatness?

SPEAKER_01 50:11

Yeah, they didn't uh they didn't see very many games. You know, my my uh my mother uh came to Chicago quite a bit at the end. Um but uh they didn't um didn't get a chance to see a lot of hockey and they never my mother worked hard, she ended up listening on the radio with uh well the the CBC used to have the Saturday game all the time. So they would watch the hockey, my mother would watch the hockey game, they had the brothers and everything else, and they would come to Vancouver when we played in Vancouver, but other than that, you know, they didn't have a chance to travel and they they still at the end didn't have a lot of money to to fly around the country, you know, watching, you know, we'd we'd bring them out. But uh yeah, it uh you know I think they were very proud uh that they played hockey, but they just never had the opportunity to come and watch. I think. You know, there wasn't flights every day. It was you know, Air Canada was the only flight around, I think, and they just couldn't afford to come come to the games.

SPEAKER_02 51:09

Your nationality being Ukrainian, uh, do you see players coming over now and just wish they had the opportunities that you may have had?

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Well, I think, you know, uh the funniest thing is uh I always have guys that I think were pretty good hockey players that never that wanted to stay home for some reason or didn't want to go. And I it I used to always irritate me when I go back home and people would say, I can't believe you made it. And I don't know if that was a compliment or if it was an insult. And I always said, Well, you know, there were other guys who were a lot better hockey players than me, but they just didn't leave home. A lot of them had a girlfriend, and I mean I had my priorities. I wanted to be a hockey player, and I I worked hard, and a lot of these guys were, you know, their parents was a dentist or something like that, and they had a pretty easy life. And uh, you know, I I was determined I was gonna play hockey. I don't know why, but uh, you know, um it was it was in my blood, I guess. And uh, you know, so it's uh you know, but the worst thing I seen so many hockey players that the biggest thing was girlfriends. A lot of guys in junior hockey would go to Saskatchewan or because that's where all the teams were, and uh be on writing letters home all the time or making phone calls, make sure you know the coach is sending them back home because they're lovely there and want their girlfriends. So that was a big thing, and that that's the one thing that our junior hockey coach, you know, you weren't allowed to have girlfriends. We couldn't drive cars, we couldn't take cabs, we had to walk in Esteban, which is minus 40 all the time, and the wind blowing. So you grew up that it was a whole different mentality, and I feel very fortunate that I grew up that way. And even my parents, you know, we we uh we worked hard, we had to work hard. And uh I don't remember ever, we were poor, but I don't remember not having a meal or uh things were pretty good to me. You know, my mother made my clothes and all that. I mean, I was embarrassed. I was called the DP all the time. I think that's why I fought a lot because that's a displaced person. And uh, you know, it was there was some fancy farmers in our country, but you know, we I I got a lot of fights at school, and so did my brothers. They were older and you know they antagonized they they we become a pretty tough family.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

When you walk down the street today and somebody recognizes how did that make you feel?

SPEAKER_01 53:26

Oh, that's good. I always say people say, Well, did you play hockey? And I said, Well, I fooled them. I I I've never been, uh my my outhouse we have on the front is my hall of fame here. That's where all my hockey trophies are, and pictures of war and all the guys. And I'm proud of that, you know. People come over and have their picture taken in the hall of fame, and you know, so I mean that's uh you know, it's uh I've always been like that. I've always, you know, I unless I had a couple of beer, I didn't want to talk too much. So I was I was a shy person, and uh, you know, uh it was uh it it's nice to have that you know acknowledgement, especially you know when you go to a banquet or something like that to be you know signing autographs and things like that. I mean, I'd be wrong in saying that you're not proud of that end of it. You know, I I was I was proud to have made it, uh Shell. And you know, a lot of people helped me get there, and a lot of people are proud that I did it too.

SPEAKER_02 54:21

So what do you miss most about the game?

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Well, uh right now I'd like to play and just make some of that money. My life a little easier. But you know, I I mean I love watching the playoffs in in hockey now. I think it's a great game. And uh, you know, I I don't think I want to go spend uh $300 for a ticket to watch a regular season game. Nothing to do for the players now, but sometimes those games are you know, you're playing 84 games in a year and some of them aren't too entertaining and it's a lot of money, the bigger setters. Um, you know. But um yeah, it's it's you know, I I don't miss, I don't, I don't skate or I can't, you know, I don't do it anymore. And I I I'd love to go out and ski with the some of the old timers here, but I just can't do it anymore. But back is is too bad.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

Anything you'd like to share to a younger player?

SPEAKER_01 55:13

I just think it's it's a great athletes, no matter what sport it is, is great. It's been great for my family. My grandkids are all elite athletes. I remember talking, they're playing you know in the Olympics and Canada and top top Canadian athletes, and they're had they've got a great life, and the money available now, the travel and uh scholarships. It doesn't have to be just hockey. There's other sports that you know you can have, but you've got to pick the right team, you've got to pick the right school, you've got to be sure that uh, you know, I we I used to help kids get scholarships in the states, and people come back and I'd hear a story of the guy who went to Texas, a young boy, and he went there and he was a good ball player, and uh he came back and said, I hate it, I wouldn't tell anybody to go. And then I find out that he got mixed up with the wrong crowd, he liked to drink, and he's chasing girls, and the coach just said, Hey, you're cut, his marks weren't that good. So, you know, there's the the college coaches are pretty good, like they keep track of you, and and unless you're a football player, that you don't have to you take basket weaving, I guess that the stories, but uh yeah, I would just say play a sport. There's so many opportunities out there and be involved. It could be swimming, it could be anything, but it's you know, it it teaches you some pretty good skills.

SPEAKER_02 56:31

What's your second best sport?

SPEAKER_01 56:32

Uh it used to be pickleball until my wife. No, I love ball. I played uh ball when I played, you know. I mean I was a top soccer player through high school, and then I played ball. I played senior aid fastball for a while, and I played slow pitch, you know, downstairs for a while and that. But uh I love ball. If I could have done it, I used to put the goalie equipment on all the time in the NHL and practices that because I love to catch. I was a catcher, and uh, but I uh in the summertimes I used to get paid uh got jobs uh because of playing ball.

SPEAKER_02 57:09

I played I caught well you were known for playing two two different positions, playing goalie at a time.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Two records. One is in uh in junior hockey. I played goal. I scored three goals in the first period, and they fired the coach, and then we ended up beating Swift Current in the game. And then same thing, I put up my hand. I don't know why. Uh my sixth when I was my first year there, I was playing the game. Same thing. The coach got was getting bombed in Brandon, and uh the coach said, I'm gonna put something else in gold. I for some reason I put my hand up and I ended up playing a gold. I remember getting caught behind the net and everything. But I could catch, I you know, I loved, I mean, I was I would meet the guys in the blue line and knock the guy over and everything. So it was uh yeah, I I mean I had a lot of fun when I played.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

What record still stands that you just are most proud of?

SPEAKER_01 57:59

Well, two, I scored the first ten points in the game, which they'll sit there in the channel, but they won't recognize it because it was in world hockey. So I scored the first ten points in the game, and then in junior I scored three goals in 24 seconds to win the game 5-4 with four seconds left in the game. Wow. So we were losing, and then I scored uh three goals in 24 seconds. At the time, you don't think about it. And that was when the first time my parents got to see me play, they flew my appearance to oh that's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 58:28

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:30

So, yeah, those are two things. Uh, you know, uh I played in Team Canada 74, but I just came off a back operation. I was again, I was gonna take my mother to and family to Russia and all that, and she went to Ukraine after your hometown and that. So that was a thrill uh with Team Canada, and I got to you know, be with Howe and Hull and all the great hockey players. Uh even I only played a couple games, but uh it was unfortunate because I just came off of the bad operation which they nicked the nerve, and I didn't realize it, so I was in pain and it was tough to play. But yeah, those are two of the three things. Just playing in the NHL was was a thrill to me. I mean, I was so, you know, the dream come true.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

Well, Jim, it's been a pleasure to meet you. It's been fun. I I you're the first hockey player I've ever ever interviewed, and it's it's something we admire and and watch from, you know, watch the pride and the just the I like to watch the Canadians play the U.S. and just watch that back and forth. And I think the last time I was down in California, we watched uh there was the US and Canada playing. I probably had just as much fun watching the fans as I had watching the players on TV and how excited they were about that's my guy, or that's that's it. So yeah, they uh something about hockey.

SPEAKER_01 59:53

You look at all the movie stars, famous people, and that they love love hockey. Even the baseball players, uh, football players, it's it's a whole different game. They love the physical contact. I mean, some of the checks thrown are unbelievable. And uh fans love it. And you know, you get you get all mixed of life that love the love the game. And uh yeah, hockey is an exciting game to watch.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

That's great. Anything else you want to add, Rod? Questions?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

I was really curious about uh you talked quite a lot about uh your back injury, and I was just wondering, was it hockey related? That what was there a specific event that happened?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:33

I'm not sure. I just uh I was playing junior, all of a sudden I went couldn't bend down. It was my little back, my four-five level, and um I couldn't have my skates up, I was in such pain, and they did the first surgery in Regina, and after that, I always had back problems. I always, you know, I uh everybody could tell how I skated because I had to uh it was that position where my back wouldn't hurt, and you could tell the posture I had. And then um again the second one, I'm not sure what happened. Um I just all of a sudden it went again, and that's when they nicked the nerve, which you know I didn't know then. I was in such pain that in Chicago they did the last operation, and they just said there was so much damage in there that so I had to fake that I had to continue playing to get paid. So uh yeah, I don't know if it was a hockey injury, it wasn't a hitter in that, but I I worked in the sawmills and I picked tomatoes when I was a young kid, and that was always bent over, and I'd never go home and had my back was so sore. Uh it was a Japanese uh tomato farm, and it was, you know, we needed the money, and I would go work with the Japanese ladies and pick tomatoes and bending over all time picking tomatoes, and that's the first time I can really remember that my back was really sore. Like I'd go home at night and I I wouldn't have to lay on the floor on my back. So I don't think it was a hockey, it wasn't a hockey injury. We had a lot more of a hockey injuries than my back. Yeah, it was just uh something happened with uh the wear and tear of my body.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

And I was curious about one other thing. Like there's been a number of rule changes over the last few years, the two-line passes, uh, you know, the offensive uh face-offs after penalty, like there's just a lot of stuff that's set up to help the offense side of the game, it seems to me. And do you like those changes? Do you or do you agree with them?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

Well, they like they like the scoring. I mean, that was the big thing. There's the penalty, like the the uh the game has changed that much. The game the the scores are higher in our games, it was a one-nothing. It was you know, there was a lot of games that went like that, 3-2 and that. Now there's some big score games. But I think the worst thing is the penalties. I mean, the inconsistency of, you know, in our era, if you if you carried your stick, you'd slap the stick out of somebody's hand. Well, you got in trouble if you dropped your stick. Now you get a penalty. Well, that's part of the game. And there's some very cheap penalty calls that I think really ruined the game, and I think a lot of players are very frustrated with that. But the the managers, really the owners and that have changed that end of it. But I think they've really tried to get scoring in the game because it's a little bit more excitement, and I think that's why they have those rule changes, you know, with ice in the puck. And also um they want the game to go faster because they don't want a five-hour game. When we played in Boston, the in intermission necessarily changed the rule that you had 15 minutes in between periods and they get two Zanborne's. Because they sold, there was the highest beer sales in the United States, so we would sit there for half an hour in between periods, and they would sell beer. Like they were every in that stadium was drunk. And it's famous for that. I mean, still it's they they're you know, they go to Boston Gardens and it's it's a it's it's a lot of fun. But they changed the rule because we would be sitting there and you know, you you take your equipment off because you knew that in between periods, so they changed the rule that it was 15 minutes in between periods, so they would get the game going on. And most of those owners own brewers, uh like Wirts was owned the big distillers and things like that and distribution of liquor. So liquor was a big part of sales in these stadiums, and uh so that was you know kind of some of the rules that they brought in the between periods and things like that. That uh, you know, we're in the old days, the owners got away with a lot of stuff. But I think the biggest thing is to answer your question is that uh, you know, a lot of those rule changes are pretty good because they are trying to speed the game up because people don't want to sit there for four hours.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

Right. And if you had to pick a favorite arena, where would it have been?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:53

Well, I used to like the old Boston Gardens because they had square corners, and I used to like running a center because I would be able to check guys because once they got the puck got in the corner, it'd be pretty tough to get out. But some of the ice, the ice made a definite skating of Montreal farm, it's like skating on like on air, like a cloud. And some of the other like Maybe Gardens had terrible ice. Like some of the places like New York, they'd have this the circus in the night before. Uh or the the morning, and you play the evening game, the ice would be chipping out, there'd be a two-inch piece of ice chipped up. They put the ice in it. Oh, yeah. So some of the like New York was really bad. Uh Detroit was okay because Olympia, the the stadiums, the ice never, you know, they didn't have a lot of shows, but New York had tons of LA was bad. Uh it was soft ice, so it's like skating a swimming pool. You know, especially a guy like me who couldn't skate that fast. I want that fast ice. So yeah, that was uh you know uh a big thing with the with the ice a.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:54

All right. I think that's good. I appreciate it, Jim, very much. Yep. That's a wrap, you bet.