UpaCreekwithNeil
From a flooded logging town beneath a hydroelectric dam to summits of the world’s highest peaks, Up a Creek with Neil brings you real stories from people who’ve lived boldly.
Hosted by Neil Amondson—a former high-climber, legislator, and global wanderer—this podcast dives into life’s turning points, unexpected adventures, and the wisdom that comes from experience.
You’ll hear from guests who’ve topped Everest, rebuilt after loss, and found meaning in places most never go.
Family-friendly, unfiltered, and rich with grit and humor—this is real life, well told.
UpaCreekwithNeil
Season 1, Episode 10 - "Joy and Faith of Climbing 7 Summits" with Julie Smith
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Julie Smith was born in Deadwood, SD; grew up near Black Hawk, SD and graduated from High School in Rapid City, SD. She graduated from Dakota Wesleyan University with a Bachelor of Science degree in Biology, with a minor in Chemistry. After a year-long internship in Medical Laboratory Science, Smith started working at the Hospital laboratory in Centralia Washington for 37 years. Between her Sophomore and Junior years in college, she took a year off to work in a research Laboratory in Nebraska. During her college years, Smith's brothers introduced her to climbing, leading to her applying for internships after college in Colorado, Oregon and Washington, where ultimately she chose Washington state. After getting a job in Centralia, Smith took the Olympia Mountaineers basic and intermediate climbing courses and completed most of her early climbing in the western half of the US. In her later years, Smith began climbing outside the US and thoroughly enjoyed meeting people from other countries. Smith completed the Seven Summits in 2012, and still enjoys getting out in God’s creation.
Julie Smith, a remarkable woman whose idea of adventure began not in the Himalayas, but in the windswept badlands of South Dakota. From her early curiosity about adventure to a lifetime spent on the world's highest peak, Julie's story is one of focus, discipline, and deep faith. After nearly four decades as a medical laboratory scientist, she devoted her free time to the mountains. Each climb, a test not only of endurance, but of purpose. She has summitted the topest peak on every continent, the seven summits, and attempted that effort three times, both from the north and south faces. On one climb to return back, within reach of the top to save another climber's life. Through her steady pace, unwavering resolve, and belief that joy and humility belong at every altitude, Julie reminds us that greatness isn't measured by height, but by heart. This is her story of faith, focus, and what it truly means to keep climbing. Well, good morning, Julie. We are welcoming you to Upper Creek with Neil, our podcast, and uh you are a bonus episode for us about climbing to new heights. Uh, we've had a chance to know each other um over the last several years, and you have climbed with my wife, and she's always talked about how compelling you are and how uh challenging you are and what you've taught her. And uh as you know, she just recently got back from her um tour or trek at El Camino Santiago, and she referred to you many times. But uh this is going to be a bonus episode, and we look forward to uh welcoming you to the show.
SPEAKER_01Okay, well thanks. Yeah, it's good to be here.
SPEAKER_02Well, great. Um Julie, what was your last climb? Where have you been?
SPEAKER_01Oh, just yesterday we hiked up um to Hogback Mountain. You know, we got a lot of snow in the mountains here, so we went to White Pass and just hiked up and skied down. It's always fun to get out there and enjoy the first snow that falls.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's great. I we're always admire your adventures and and where you've been and where you've come from. But um I guess I'd like to reflect back on where you were born. You were born in the Black Hills of South Dakota, and having been there in near Deadwood area, that is a beautiful uh country. Um but how did that stir your curiosity about doing an adventure or adventures?
SPEAKER_01Oh, you know, I think um I don't know that that did so much because you know we grew up on a farm and really did not leave. We kind of went to visit relatives once a year, and that was about it. Um, but certainly we hiked in the hills. I had a pastor there at our church who took our youth group out hiking in the Black Hills. He probably got me started, you know, doing a lot of hiking, and I enjoyed being out in the hills. There was it was fun. And it's fun being with people too, you know, that we uh that we hiked with. And yeah, he was uh really I looked back and that was a lot of work for him to get us all out on these hikes. So yeah, that was fun. I enjoyed the people there in the Black Hills and still do. I still get back there once in a while and enjoy a lot of the people that I went to high school with, I still get together with them and it's fun to fun to see them.
SPEAKER_02That is absolutely stunning, beautiful country to see. It's it's amazing to see that country. But uh uh you shared in your bio that how your brothers introduced you to the adventure, and and I guess I'd like to ask uh how did how did that um introduction from your brothers lead you to the adventures you've done?
SPEAKER_01You know, I think um as an athlete, you know, in high school and in college, I played sports, and so I really enjoyed being active. But my senior year of college, my two oldest brothers invited me to go to the Wind River Range of Wyoming. And we went in there on a 10-day hike and climbed a couple of peaks that were 13,000 feet and saw all these mountains and these lakes and went fishing. And I thought, oh, I want to do this the rest of my life. This is really fun. Um, and so that probably um that's how they got me started. So my brother Cord was part of the instigator of all of that. He'd been climbing out in the Tetons and uh in the Wind River Range, and so that was and I had seen pictures of him climbing down in the Andes Mountains, and so that was always inspiring. He was a big inspiration to me getting out in the mountains. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Did you ever think at that time that you would go on to summit the seven summits?
SPEAKER_01Oh no, not at all. I never thought I would even attempt Everest because it's too dangerous. I thought it was too dangerous. It is dangerous. I'm not gonna say that it's not, but um no, I never yeah, that just that whole progression was just you know a lifetime of climbing. And I think had I gotten married and had kids, there's no way I would have gone on to climb at all. But um, yeah, you know, I just never got married, never had kids. And so, you know, you kept climbing more difficult stuff, and then you kept climbing higher at higher elevations and finding that I was, you know, God made me so I was able to climb. You know, he gave me two legs and two lungs that I can climb. And not to mention, he's made this whole planet full of mountains, and I've climbed just a handful. You know, he's uh he's certainly, you know, it's a God thing that I even got to go because I think of the people who can't walk, and I can, you know, so I had no control over the mountains he made or the fact that I can walk uphill, and here I am born in a country where I could go to high school, go to college, and have an economy where I can get a job and make money to go. So, yeah, there's a lot of credit there to God, I think, to getting me out there. Um, you know, it certainly was my desire. I sometimes struggle with that desire because, you know, it's like um, you know, God would want me to put him first in my life, not this idol that I have over here of climbing. And so that's always been a struggle with me. Is this an idol or is this, you know, something God wants me to do? But certainly was my pastime and it's what I enjoyed doing. But um always grateful to God for bringing me back alive. I always had my Bible in my backpack and a prayer on my heart. I certainly didn't walk up to these big mountains thinking I'm gonna climb this. I always walked up to him thinking, I'm gonna try. And I always had a prayer in my heart to God that, you know, he would, you know, you know, keep me alive and bring me back in one piece. And, you know, if it's his will, I would get to the top. Um, so a lot of credit to God to for getting me through a lot of stuff. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But uh what I I always wonder what is in a person's DNA that drives them to do what you do? What what click or do you recall a moment when you said, I'm going to do this, I'm going to summit every mountain? What what was in your DNA that that just jettisoned you off?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, it is interesting because I think I'm a I want to stay alive. I do not want to die. And there's that, I mean, it's a dangerous, and I knew that by taking the basic and intermediate climbing courses through the Olympia Mountaineers. I knew all the risks, you know, and I had lost a friend to the mountains um when I was 24. She just died in her sleep on Mount Adams. But it made me think at the age of 24, oh, do I don't want to die, you know? And so, but I do want to climb these mountains. I knew I wanted to, I just loved it. It was so much fun. But I think it's the physical activity, um, you know, and try and it's also a puzzle trying to figure out how to get to the top, especially in rock climbing. You know, where can you put your hands, where can you put your feet to get up this thing? So there's physical activity, I think there's the puzzle of it. And um it's interesting. Someone told me this, and I think they're right. Um, that because I can't really pinpoint either why I would go do this stuff, because I really don't want to die, I want to live. But she said that some people need more stimulation than others. And I think there's something to that. When you look at these guys who are out there free soloing without a rope, I don't do that. Yes. Um their brain is different. Their brain is different, and I don't think they register fear, and I think they've measured that in these guys. They don't register fear. And so maybe I'm part way there, not like them, but um, maybe I'm able to put fear, fear behind me. And I and I know that because every year I'd go out and I'd get up on the rock and I'd think, oh, this is scary up here. But then you can put it out of your mind and focus on what you're doing here. You know, you're climbing the rock, you're not looking down where you're gonna fall. I think I'm able to put that fear behind me and be and I always climb something I knew I could get up because I always had a top rope on, you know, climbing rock. I knew what I could get up and what I would fall off of. And I never led anything that I was gonna fall off of. I was too chicken to do that. I didn't want to get hurt. And so I pretty much would look at a route and I would look at what I was able to climb, um, you know, what I what was within my ability. So that's so yeah, I think if I I hope I didn't digress from what your question was, but I think it's about fear, and um I think everybody's different on that level. You know, you look at some of those climbers who do free soloing, and they're just in a really different world uh than I am. But then again, there's some people who wouldn't even venture into the mountains because that's just too scary. Here's an interesting story. I have a friend, uh, and I would go hiking with her a lot. And she had a friend that would come from Minnesota and hike with her, also. And this friend from Minnesota, her mother would always be worried when she came out here and went hiking with Carol. And truly all they're doing is going backpacking. And um, when I went backpacking with Carol, so her mother was afraid when she came out here. My mother was relieved when I went with Carol because uh she knew we were just gonna be backpacking and not climbing. So it's kind of a funny where people's fears are, you know, those moms that um that worry about their kids.
SPEAKER_02So it is interesting uh how you know in my own life, um I don't fear public speaking, you know. I I I welcome it. I I am energized by it, and it's it's it just there. But I can I I can never picture uh what you've looked at from a climbing perspective. And are there do you have other fears? If it's not the mountain, what do you fear?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I fear public speaking for sure. Yeah. I would rather be on a cliff than in front of a crowd. You know, and I have done some slideshows and stuff, but if I have a slide to prompt me and a story to tell, that's fine. But just public speaking, for me, that is difficult. It's not, I'm not good at it for one thing. And um yeah, it is kind of a fear, I think, for me.
SPEAKER_02Wow, wow. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna talk about this more on each of your uh summits that you did at which summit may have been more fearful than others, but you uh your work uh in over 37 years in uh laboratory science and that was precise, it was methodical work. And I guess what discipline shaped you from that work and how you approach life or how you approach climbing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, um certainly I loved science. It was really fun to study science. Um, and certainly being in the laboratory, you know, we had to follow certain rules, and those rules had a purpose so we don't accidentally hurt the patient or kill the patient, right? And so um part of my job too is just looking for errors that we might have, you know, a close call or an error, you know, and we report those things and we look at them and we try to figure out how not to have that happen again, how to help the humans do the right thing. Well, the same thing kind of is in climbing, also. I used to read this book, it's called Climbing Accidents in North American Mountaineering. So you read about what happened and then what you could do to not have that happen. And safety rules come out of that, you know, and so both of those really coincided. My job, you know, at the hospital and also um in climbing, you know, and nobody wants to die out there, and how can you avoid that? So through the mountaineers and through the American Alpine Club, I had um lots of safety um uh uh information, you know, and uh and learning learning sessions. So that was that was helpful. So those two really did coincide. Yeah, you're right. It's they're both real, it's probably who I am. I'm sort of methodical and I like to, you know, do things one way and um try and figure out how to how to do things right, I suppose, so you don't get hurt.
SPEAKER_02And uh I don't know if that helps, but yeah, that's uh well they say professionals in any occupation. Um and uh I understand of course the world series are going on now, and how even professional baseball players go back to the basics and practice the same thing over and over and over again. So it becomes second nature. So yeah. Does that apply to you as well when you think about how you tie in or how you uh approach a climb or a difficult situation in climbing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, um when I think back to sports, you know, the more you play and the more you practice, the easier it becomes, actually. You know, you can hit that basket or you can hit your partner on a bounce pass for the layup, you know, and and all those things. What um and also in rock climbing, the more I was out there rock climbing, not only the stronger you get, but the more in tune you are with the rock, and the more you realize that if I hold this rock, you know, if I put my hand on this hold this way, I don't have as much strength as if I, you know, hold on it this way. I've got more power. Um, you know, it's things like that, learning that and always being, I call it being in tune with the rock. That was kind of my how I called it. Because I felt like it was a fluid movement and I felt confident in that movement. So yeah, being out there and practicing all the time and just going over it and over it. When I rock climbed a lot, I was out there at least twice a week. You know, we were practicing and then we were out on the rock on the weekend. And so that was um, yeah, just like in baseball, you know, I think you have to go back to the basics and just practice everything. So it's um, yeah, same thing in our jobs or in work, you know, the routine of doing things over and over can be good and bad, you know. You need to focus on it and always know what you're doing, and that muscle memory is there at work too. Um, but sometimes you can that muscle memory can put you over that edge where you're not thinking about what you're doing, too. I think that can be that can happen in climbing too, I think. I have found myself getting ready for a rappel and I had not clipped in yet because you're so used to that routine. And that's where double checking everything has to happen. You know, you need to do everything. So, yeah, it's amazing. I mean, God's kept me alive through a lot of stuff when I think back on, you know, rockfall or avalanches or just the human things that I could possibly have done wrong. There's twice I can think of where I was not clipped in and I should have been. But I didn't mean I it's not like I didn't mean to. I don't know what happened. I mean, one time I just simply was probably just going through the motions and didn't get clipped in. So, you know, I mean, so God has kept me alive through stuff like that, you know, and I there's really no reason I should be here. Why why did I get to climb these mountains? You know, it's he's um I give a lot of credit to God for all that he's he's done.
SPEAKER_02But uh it's interesting to see or meet you, but one might think you are a timid librarian, but not a person of this massive strength and ability to climb seven summits. How did your profile or physique uh either prepare you or challenge you uh for climbing these summits?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, that's kind of an interesting question. I can get on a hiking trail with people and they will just leave me in the dust because I'm short. I'm only five foot four, and my probably my inseam is really short. So I don't have long legs. And so I don't I can't keep up with people on a trail. Wow, you know, going downhill or flat. But um, generally on the uphill, I probably have a little bit more power, maybe just in my legs, I suppose. And that's a God-given thing. It's nothing I did. Um, but certainly I think it's a progression. You know, I started climbing small stuff and then you climb bigger stuff. And it's also a mind thing because you know you can do 2,000 feet, and then you know, oh, I can do 4,000 feet in a day. Oh, you know, I can do 6,000 feet in a day, and I'm still okay. And um, so that's a progression both of realizing you can do it in your head, but also training yourself physically to get there. But yeah, the physique thing, I um certainly I was not that I'm never the fastest person going uphill. I never have been. Even on when I was on Everest, of course I'm competing with a lot of men, but even some of the women were faster than I, but I know I know my speed, and I and I know that I can get it done in a day. And I know what I can do in a day, I guess. Um, and I would stay within those limits is kind of what I would do, not try to push beyond that what I could do. So, yeah, I don't know. I I think there's a lot of, I had a lot of desire. I don't think I was really built to be a climber, probably, but it was sure a lot of fun. And I'm certainly not built to be a great rock climber or an ice climber, but I think when it comes to high altitude endurance, that's kind of where I excelled. Um, just that slow, steady pace uphill. And I think it's all about even on one big mountain, or even each day, there's always a goal you set for yourself. Like I'm gonna make it that first thousand feet, then I'm gonna make it the next thousand. So you're always looking forward not to the summit, but you're always looking forward to you know that first thousand feet. I'm gonna make it this far, I'm gonna make it this far. And then you always have to remember that when you get to the top, you always have to get down. I mean, that's just that's it's only half over. It's only half over when you get to the top.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Which is harder, going up or going down?
SPEAKER_01Well, physically coming going up is harder. Um, you know, you're out of balance more coming down because you're facing outward. Um, so your your possibility of tripping or falling is easier coming down. Um, and you're tired, um, especially on Everest. I think that's probably the most taxing. It's hard to describe, but because of the lack of oxygen, it really taxes your body and zaps your energy, or it did for me anyway.
SPEAKER_02And your mind, I presume.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, your mind too. I mean, that's where that focus comes in. You're always focusing on every step. Every step counts. That went through my head a lot when I'm out there in difficult places where there's a big fall on either side. I and you're just walking, but you know, it's 10,000 feet down one side and 2,000 down the other. You're still saying every footstep counts, every footstep counts, and you're focusing, even though you're tired, you're at you know, 29,000, 28,000 feet. Um, yeah, you're focusing on every footstep.
SPEAKER_02But uh it's interesting uh what you've uh taught my wife, Susan, and what she's also taught me. I'm Nora climber, but I enjoy uh getting out and seeing different things. But that pacing of yourself and step by step and taking that on, uh, explain that to us how that works for you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, certainly at altitude, um, it's called a rest step. So you actually take a step up and you hesitate for a second, and you're basically relaxing your leg. And I can keep up a pace like that for a very long time. So you're not pushing yourself hard, you're going at a pace where you're gonna make it there. You can't go too slow. If you're going too slow, you're never gonna make it there. But certainly pace yourself. Um, and breathing too at altitude. Breathing is important, you know, deep breathing to get that oxygen exchange to happen at your lungs, um, things like that. And so, yeah, if you just push yourself hard, you're gonna wear yourself out. So you certainly have to pace yourself. Um, my friend Eric and I were, oh, I don't know, we do these long crazy ski trips. And um he said to me, We said one day, I mean, we'd put in probably a 12, 14-hour day, and he said, I wonder how long I could just keep walking until I fell over. You know, we've never gotten to that point at all, but uh I've done some 24-hour days and I could still keep walking. Um, so you learn, you know, you learn stuff about your body and what you're capable of doing. I'm glad I haven't found that point where I just fall over.
SPEAKER_02It's amazing not not only you're a climber, but you're a skier. And and share uh with us about some of your climb ski adventures.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, you know, I took the basic and intermediate climbing courses through the Olympic Mountaineers, so a lot of my friends were telemarket skiers. Everybody went back to kind of the old style telemarket skiing back in the 80s, and I got caught up in that. So I've been a telemarket skier for over 40 years. I just switched to um parallel skiing this last year. Year. I'm getting old and I'm not as strong as I used to be. But yeah, we would go out and ski up to Camp Meir and come back down. You know, Camp Meir is 10,000 feet on Mount Rainier. We'd hike up there and ski down. And of course, the volcanoes here in Washington are just absolutely fun to ski. And on Mount Rainier, you know, there's lots of different glaciers you can ski in the spring. I always ski them in the spring when they're when the crevasses are well covered with snow. And Mount Adams is fun because there's no crevasses and it's a little bit safer. But yeah, it's just fun to climb up and then be able to ski down. You can get down a lot faster. Now that I'm older, it's a whole lot easier on my knees than walking down. But yeah, and we went over to the Alps and we skied across we skied from uh Chamonet, France, to Zermatt, Switzerland, across the Alps one time, and that was really fun.
SPEAKER_02I've done a couple of trips.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I don't know. We were out there for about six or eight days, um, putting in 12-hour days, you know, uh crossing the mountains. But beautiful country. Wow, the Alps are amazing. And I've had a chance to do another ski tour there in Austria. And so, yeah, it's a great way to see the mountains, and then it's a great way to travel across snow quickly, is on skis. Um, so that's yeah, and then it's just fun to ski. Um, sometimes it turns into a survival trip, right? If you've got breakable crust, you've got just really difficult snow, then you just try to get down. But sometimes you get those really nice powder days or really nice spring corn snow, and that's fun. That's just fun. And um, and that's that's kind of where I'm at today. That's one of the things I enjoy the most. It's what we did yesterday. We just hiked up with our skins on and skied down. And it's one of the things I enjoy the exercise, and then you get to ski down, so that's fun. But yeah, um, yeah, mostly I've done some stuff up in Canada too, out of uh what out of Whistler and then the Pemberton Ice Cap north of uh Whistler. Yeah, there's some great country up there in Canada. There it's really amazing up there what they've got. And you know, it's it's what a privilege to live here. You know, you've got Canada's not so far away, and you can fly to Alaska to do stuff. And yeah, I live in a privileged time.
SPEAKER_02That's uh how do you uh relate or can you relate to this recent climber skier that went to Everest and skied down Everest?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, that was pretty cool what he did. I just briefly read a little bit about it, but he I believe he skied. If you can correct me if I'm wrong, I think he skied the Hornbine Coolar. And Tom Hornbine and those guys, they were on the American expedition in 63, I believe it was. And so that's when the Whitakers climbed the normal route. And Hornbine and Willie Ansild were on the West Ridge. And so they were the first ones to go up that route, which was just amazing. And I think they spent the night pretty close to the summit and then came down. So their trip they traversed up and over the mountain. And not many people have repeated that climb. And this guy skied it. And I didn't I don't know the whole story on that. Did he go up the normal route and then ski down this? I don't know the answer to that.
SPEAKER_02I'm not sure of the details, but I was thinking more of just how he released himself from the climb. I know, and the exhaustion of the climb and how he changes breathing and um focused on skiing versus climbing and the risk of fall at that altitude.
SPEAKER_01I know. You know, that's exactly that's a good point. I mean, these guys are much stronger than I am. You know, they've I they've obviously they're number one, they're a better skier than I am, plus they're a lot stronger. I can't imagine trying to ski at that altitude because it's just hard enough walking downhill. It was surprising to me the first time I was on Everest, and I, you know, we got up to 25,000 feet and I'm trying to walk down, and I'm just breathing hard at trying to walk downhill because of the lack of oxygen. So yeah, that takes a lot of strength and oxygen and lung capacity to ski down Everest. So, you know, I would say he's got a lot of focus, um, obviously very strong, but I think you would probably just have to focus on every turn, you know. Uh yeah, it'd be interesting to listen to an interview with that guy. You know, what what does it take to Yeah, they've got a lot more more um guts than I do to ski something like that.
SPEAKER_02Well, don't uh in any way knock yourself, Julie. You have something that a lot of people don't have. And even though this guy may have climbed Mount Everest and skied Mount Everest, not many women have done what you've done. How many women do you know of that have done all seven summits?
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, I don't, you know, at the time I don't know uh yeah, I don't know the answer to that question, how many people have done that, but it's not many. And I what's interesting, it's becoming more popular though. There's more and more people going out to do that. There's access to get there, you know, people know about it. And um, yeah, I never knew what the seven summits was until I was on Everest. And I had already climbed what McKinley and I'd done Akoncagua and Kilmanjaro, and um then there I was on Everest, and I realized there's this thing called the Seven Summits. And so I go, oh wow, if I make this one, maybe I should go do the other three. And so that's why I did it, because I did make the top of Everest. And so I thought it would be not only that, but it was really fun going to all those countries. You know, there is nothing, I think that's the thing I learned the most is seeing people from other cultures in other countries and realizing it how privileged we are here to be able to go do this stuff. Because, you know, we were in Papua New Guinea and we were or Papua, um, the island of Papua, and also um in Africa and you know, Nepal. And I think uh, and even in Russia, I talked to a woman there who it's not easy for them to go do the Seven Summers. They don't have the money, they can't make money like we can here in America or in Europe. Um, I mean, what a privilege to be able to go do that. Um, yeah, it's uh but no, it's um yeah, I'm grateful to have been able to go.
SPEAKER_02Um and it's uh Well Julie, not only did you do Everest, you attempted Everest three times.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So we we hear about the South Face, we hear about the North Face, of course, from the North Face shacklets. But explain that, uh those three different summit attempts, and what was what was the most challenging of those and how did they differ?
SPEAKER_01You know, um yeah, it's interesting to me because I didn't really want to climb Everest. What I wanted to climb was Chooyo. It's the sixth tallest peak on earth, and it was safer and it has more uh less deaths and more ascents than Everest. And I had talked to a friend and he agreed to go to Chooyo, but he would rather attempt Everest again. He'd already attempted it once. And he talked me into going to the north side, and we tried that without Sherpa support, and um, there is less um objective hazards, so things that can fall on you and kill you on that north side. So that was a drawing point for me. You know, if there's not those objective hazards that can kill you, I'm more apt to go. There are, and don't get me wrong, there are things that can kill you there for sure. Um, it's a big mountain and big things, big bad things can happen on those mountains. Um, but it um yeah, so we ended up going there and we got to 27,000 feet. That's the 26,000 feet, I think, or 27 is the high camp on the north side. And we took off for the summit the next day. And we talked about this later, my climbing partner and I, but he decided to turn around because he wasn't feeling so well. But he's a really tall guy and I'm a smaller person. We were both running on the same amount of oxygen per minute, and so I felt good, but he did not. He probably needed more oxygen per minute than I did. Um, so he wanted to turn around, and I certainly wasn't going to go by myself. And we were some of the last people going for the summit. But you did not have a sherpa. We didn't, no. We hadn't, yeah. So we hauled a lot of stuff up. Um, you know, that was probably a mistake. I, you know, I know sherpas. So we wore ourselves out. We're the last people going for the summit. It's very lonely up there at that point.
SPEAKER_02And did you have oxygen? Were you taking it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we'd carried oxygen up. Yeah, I find that's the other thing I learned on that climb was that at about 25,000 feet is where I need oxygen. I'm just going so slow, I'm not making much progress. So that's something I learned on that climb. Anyway, we can't, we but I got higher than Choyo on that climb. And I thought, okay, this is good. I'm higher than the mountain I wanted to do. I don't need to come back here. I got back alive. That was I was grateful for that, you know, and I got to see the north side of the mountain. It was neat seeing Tibet and that north side. Came back from that, and I thought, ah, I'm not gonna go back. And um, it's funny, there's this woman, her name's Elizabeth Hawley, and she has since passed away, but she's the historian on all the mountains, the 7,000, 8,000 meter peaks. And she interviewed me because she tries to figure out whether you made the summit or not. But I got back from that climb on the north side, and um she just I said to her, I said, Yeah, I think I'm done. I don't need to come back. And she she looks at me like this, she pulls her glasses down, she said, You'll be back. She said, just don't come next year. It's the 50th anniversary of when it first got climbed. And so, but there's a book out and it's called uh I'll call you in Kathmandu, and it's a picture of Elizabeth Holly, and she's got her glasses down like this, and she's looking at you. And so it was a privilege to meet her on that climb. Um, since then she uh had died, and I so it was really neat to have met her on that climb. And um, she's not a climber herself, she's a reporter, but she was the historian for a lot of the mountaineering that went on. Um, she wrote for the American Alpine Club. Anyway, so I came back from that climb and I it did eat at me for about four or five years, and I thought, you know, I think I can get to the top of that thing. And there was a guide I had met on the north side, and he sort of convinced me that the ice fault wasn't that um dangerous. He said, I'd been through there 50 times, he said, and I hadn't had any problems, and I thought, well, okay, because I thought that thing just ate people alive, and I certainly didn't want to die. Um, so I went there and um we tried, and so the second time around, we just ran across really bad winds up to the top. And I know how hard it is to climb uh Rainier in a hard wind, and so I thought there's no way I'm gonna even attempt the tallest peak on earth in a really strong wind. These two guys that were much stronger than I, two Germans, came down and said I was just brutal up there, and they had turned around. I thought, well, I have no business going up there, and I don't want to lose my fingers and toes and die. So I came down, and that was kind of our summit attempt on that. And the season was getting later and later, and so I came home from that one. Felt very disappointed, but um again, absolutely grateful that I was alive. You know, I like I said, I never went to Everest not asking God whether I should go for one thing and asking him to keep me safe and bring me back alive, and he certainly did that for me. Um anyway, so yeah, the third time around I went, you know, I had more experience, knew where I needed oxygen.
SPEAKER_02Let me put let me date this for you. Sorry to ask your age, but how old were you when you attempted the first summit and then your last summit?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Would have been 2002 was the first attempt, and I believe I would have been 42 at that point, and then 2006 is when I summited, so 46 years old when I summited. Um, yeah. Um, but yeah, that last summit, it went like clockwork. And of course, I kind of knew the mountain a little bit more, and I, you know, in your head, you know you can make these certain points. You just don't know that last piece. How am I gonna perform at that last piece? And um so I had the experience under my belt and um had a great team of guys that I was with, and um just had um good weather and things worked out, and I knew I could get good weather up there. I just had to wait it out and go on the right day because I've seen people up there with no wind, with you know, just uh a fleece jacket on, and so I knew it could happen, and that's what we got.
SPEAKER_02And so my wife recalls when she went with you to base camp. So, which which summit was that?
SPEAKER_01That was the first time in 2002. So every time that I went to Everest, I always went to the base camp on the south side to acclimatize that 17,000 feet. It's easy to trek there and come back. Um, you know, last time around, I think I figured out that what we did was we trekked in a little bit longer route. And so I went to some 18,000 foot passes and peaks before I got to the base camp. Because that's one way I could eliminate the risk of the ice fall, is the quicker I can get through that ice fall, the less objective hazards, you know, things that can fall on you. So I um try to get myself as acclimatized as possible before going through there. And um, yeah, the faster you move, the the less hazard uh hazardous it is. So yeah, she was on one of those trucks with this, but um yeah, um yeah, we're we know your question. I'm thinking I got off subject here, but uh no, that's fine.
SPEAKER_02That's fine. Yeah, how do you uh differentiate uh for a non-climber the difference between the south summit or the south face and north face?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the north face. Um I think that the south side is a little bit easier, and that's another reason I went that way. And then I also went with Sherpa support because um no one's gonna rescue up there except a Sherpa. And so that's what we did with our teams, is that we had Sherpa's helping us. We also had a Sherpa up at the high camp with oxygen. So if something happened, they could come up and help you. But the difference between the two is the north side has these three difficult steps on summit day, called they just call them step one, two, and three, and they're rock, it's a rock climb basically, and crampons with the ice axe. And so those are the difficult spots. And I think you're and you're also more it there's less oxygen, so it's more taxing. So I think it's more difficult on the north side. Um, but on the south side, it's it was all snow for me going up to um, it's just kind of a steep snow climb up to a pit place called the balcony, and then it's a ridge climb from there. And the Hillary step is probably the hardest thing. Although I ran across something before you get to the south side, it was a downwardly sloping rock that was difficult to climb. I had a fixed line, so I'm hooked into something. If I fall, I'm probably not gonna go anywhere. But that seemed difficult. The Hillary step to me seemed fairly easy because there were big footholds on it. And so it just is easier on Summit Day. Um there's some steep stuff on the Lotsi face down low, and the the yellow band is a little bit lower. So that steep section is lower on the mountain where you've got more oxygen. And um, but on Summit Day there's less steep stuff, so it's a little bit easier, um, is what I could say about that route.
SPEAKER_02Julie, I can't help but ask, what compelled you, a five foot four giant from South Dakota, to attempt the North base without Sherpas.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And your first attempt. What what drove you to do that? Why would you do that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You know, I used to be able to carry, I can't anymore. I used to be able to carry a 60 to 65 pound pack. So I don't know. I thought, yeah, with enough. Well, and I think this friend I was going with, I think he had a legitimate thing here. He said, you know, if you let the Sherpas do all the carrying, you don't get yourself acclimatized. So it makes sense to go up and down the mountain and get acclimatized, get stronger. Um, and I think that makes a sense, makes sense to a point. Um, because you can really wear yourself out doing that too. Um, and yeah, I think I've never lost so much weight not having a sherpa there. We lost weight. I felt pretty weak at the end of that climb, things like that. But I um I guess you're young and you're crazy and you think you can do it. And you know, I always know that I can walk up there and if I can't do this, I'm just gonna turn around and come home. I I don't have any, I don't have any shame. Um, it's not like I'm gonna I I never said I'm gonna go climb this thing. I said I'm gonna go try to climb this thing. And that's kind of what I always looked at on that is, you know, I can always turn around. I mean, I don't want to die, and if I can't make it, I can't make it. That's not a big deal, you know.
SPEAKER_02Amazing. Absolutely amazing. What of the seven summits, which one gave you the most fearful moment?
SPEAKER_01Let me think. Uh it was probably on Everest. I was on the Lotsi face when an unusual storm came up and I got hypothermic. Um, I knew I was going hypothermic because I was on the radio calling into base camp, going, my hands are shaking uncontrollably. I couldn't stop it. So I knew I was going hypothermic. I think when you know it, you're okay. It's when you don't know it, is when you're not okay anymore. So I knew it was pretty, pretty dire that I make this next 500 feet. Um, so I told them where I was and I said, I'm on my way up, I'm gonna try and keep going. I didn't tell them that I'm shaking uncontrollably, but I knew I was in trouble. And so I just said, Well, I gotta make it or die. And so I just kept climbing and I got there. It was quite cold when I got there. And, you know, we got some water bottles, some hot water going, and um, I just put some water bottles in the bag with me and I got warmed up again. But uh it was so that was probably one of the scarier moments, I suppose. Um yeah. Everything else, I mean, I do choose the seven summits, if you look at it, the routes are not that difficult. So I'm not choosing something extremely difficult to climb. K2 is much harder to climb, it's the second tallest peak. Um, I think Kenya's much harder in Africa, it's the second tallest peak. Um so I do choose routes that I believe I can get up. Um so that takes the fear out of it, I guess. Or um yeah, um but yeah, and so things, yeah, they worked out, I guess.
SPEAKER_02That um Julie, that's amazing to me when I talk to you because for those that don't know you, you are so humble and such a uh gentle giant in your own way, but you talk of these episodes, these adventures of climbing the seven summits and of going to Everest without a sherpa. I just I I'm just I can't believe it. How how anyone like you, such a giant of five foot four, could or would do this? That just boggles my mind.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. It's um I loved climbing, I think is what it was. I really enjoyed it, and I just wanted to see what I could do. And like I said, I think I wasn't afraid of failure. Um, sometimes you learn more from failure than you do from a success. And um, you know, if you can't make it, you can't make it, you turn around and you come home. That's no big deal. But I enjoyed being out there. I loved camping on the side of a mountain. I mean, I uh when I look back, the places we camped on Everest, the places I've camped here in the North Cascades or the mountains here, those campsites sitting on the side of a mountain. I mean, that's where I love to be, you know, and so that's um, and certainly I I mean, I couldn't have done it. Like I said, I give a lot of credit to God. I mean, he made them, you know, I I've only climbed a handful of what he's made, and he gave me the strength to get there. You know, he gave me two legs at work, lungs at work. I mean, I couldn't have done that. Um, and yeah, so it's it's not uh Do you think that's what drives you?
SPEAKER_02Is it a God thing or is it you? What drove you?
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. Well, it certainly is. Um, I think it's probably inside of me. It's something that I wanted to do. Um, but I certainly didn't go there without God, let me tell you. You don't walk up to a big mountain like Everest and say, I'm gonna climb you. You know, I walk I I remember driving down the freeway and I go, God, I'm gonna go climb Everest. I hope that's okay with you. Um I said, like, I'm gonna go, but you're gonna have to break my leg if you don't want me to go. So, you know, but it God's never come out of the sky and talked to me and told me what to do at all. I do pray to him. I read his word, I read God's word. He talks to me more through the Bible and through my church and through Bible study than than uh talking to me. But um no, uh I there's a lot of credit there. I mean, he made me. I can't. I I I think of the people who, you know, they've got a permanent limp or they're in a wheelchair and they can't climb. I have nothing to do with that, you know. I mean, he he made me. So yeah, and yeah, the desire. Yeah, I just love being out there.
SPEAKER_02I suppose it's uh who do you uh when you think of the seven summits, uh who do you think of in your mind was wow, I met this person, or this person was such a remarkable impact you in that you did what you did, but you saw somebody in that. That's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. Um, wow, yeah. I try not to put humans on pedestals, right? Because they can fall off pretty quickly. Um, because we're human and we can hurt people easily. Um but I think uh, you know, I'd have to say my brothers. I saw my brother climbing big mountains, you know, in Peru, and I thought, wow, that's pretty cool. Um and certainly friends, um one friend in particular, Linda, that who was an excellent rock climber and taught me a lot. Um and she was excellent at what she did, and I probably have done a lot of things that she did because I followed in her footsteps, I suppose. Yeah, she was an amazing person. Um yeah, it's uh not to mention she was a Christian too, so she was a great friend. Um so yeah.
SPEAKER_02When you read books or uh into thin air is a popular book that many people refer to when they think of Everest. How does that story differ from what you saw?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, that was that whole incident was kind of interesting. Um, you know, he wrote that book. I met some people on Everest who absolutely disliked um John Krakaur, because of what he wrote, and they disagreed with what he wrote. So there's a lot of books that came out of that, all in disagreement of what happened that day. You know, you think about it, any story, people see things differently here at sea level, much less at, you know, 25,000 feet in a storm. People see things differently. Um, so yeah, I think what came out of that whole incident, though, was um I think people shared weather information and there became the weather information became more accessible. People shared that information, people worked together. I think people left for the summit earlier too in the day. I think the fixed lines got set before that first climb, you know, things like that. A lot of things changed on the mountain after that year. Um, and I think it's I was talking to, I just went to a lecture the other night um by a guy from Olympia. He's a mountain climbing guide, trying to think of his name right now, and I can't, but he said he really believes it is safer. I'm not going to say any mountain is safe. You can die. So with that said, it's safer because um, you know, the Sherpas are up there looking at those lines every day, setting those lines, and they've just got that dialed in, how to how to set the lines to make it safer. And so there's that on the mountain. Am I deviating from your question here? I probably am.
SPEAKER_02No, no, I I I think it's relevant. Um, but when you uh went up there, I presume you saw the failed attempts of others, uh bodies on the mountain or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Do you recall when you saw that, what impact that had on you? Like what decision did they make or what happened to them? And could that be me?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Yeah, going back to yeah, so the weather can change on you there. But um, certainly we ran across people died on the mountain every time I was there. And there would be a depression that would go over base camp when someone dies. But it's different than any other mountain. You know, it's kind of like here in the Cascades, you'd all go home, but there it's spent all this money to get there. You know, it's the understood risk of Everest that you might die. It's I think it's more understood that this is a very dangerous mountain. Um, and so yeah, everybody kind of goes through a depression and um and then you kind of go back out there and climb again. Um certainly I there were, yeah, I've walked by a couple of bodies there, but they were wrapped in tents and there were recent deaths. I didn't walk by anybody who'd been there for a long time. They it we had a lot of snow that year. If they're there, they were probably covered and I didn't see them. Um but yeah, that the looming of death on Everest is certainly in your mind the whole time. And I I mean, I remember thinking before I left, um, man, I need to buy some new bath towels. My bath towels are just rags. And I thought, well, wait, I'm not gonna buy them yet because if I come back alive, I'll buy some. You know, you know, in the back of your room, you might not come back alive. I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that I accepted that in my head. I always thought I was coming back alive, um, even though I don't have control over that. But um, it certainly goes through the back of your mind. It was back there, but I would never have admitted it when I was in the thick of it going out there. Yeah. It's kind of interesting, that mindset of life and death on on big mountains.
SPEAKER_02When you hear or you think of the word success, what does success mean to you?
SPEAKER_01Success means that God has saved me from my sins and he's taught me to believe in him. The biggest success in my life is that I'm a Christian. It's not any mountain I've ever climbed. I mean, God has, you know, he sent his son to die on a cross for my sins. I'm a sinner, I'm a horrible person, but he has saved me and he's given me the Holy Spirit. He's given me faith. To me, that's the biggest success in anybody's life. I've I sorry I'm a Christian, but I am. I can't separate myself from who I am. And so that would be my biggest success is that God's got me in his hands. And um, I know if I die, you know, going up to all those mountains, I knew I was gonna be in heaven if I died. That was not a big deal to me. Maybe that's part of how I could put fear out of my head. I know there's a God who loves me, he cares about me, and I believe in eternal life, which he speaks of, you know. Um yeah, I uh that it's that's my biggest success is that God's made me a Christian. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_02I appreciate that. I also want to ask, do you recall sharing or experiencing that faith with another person in a difficult situation on a mountain?
SPEAKER_01Let me think about that. Um, not really. Um, I mean, you certainly do find other Christians out there once in a while, not many. Um, but no, um I would have to say that I have not had a lot of difficult times in the mountains. I have lost friends to the mountains, you know. And um, I'd have to say the few friends that I've lost to the mountains, they were Christians. And I think I'll see them again, you know. Um, and that's uh that's a real that's a peace that, you know, I don't think everybody can find. And I think that's part of the piece of that's maybe why I could go to the mountains, is because of my faith in God. I mean, I didn't want to die, but um I knew it could happen, and but I also know it's on the other side of death. And uh here's one thing I did share one time. I was climbing with some guys and we were it was pretty difficult climb. I didn't lead it, this other guy did, but they yelled it down to me and told me to bring up some more slings and things. And and I get up there and I find out that we don't have a very good repel uh situation, right? So that's why they had me bring up more slings and so we're putting stuff on here and we're hoping this anchor is gonna hold. And I said, Well, you know what? I'm a Christian, I know I'm gonna end up in heaven if this doesn't work, so I should go first. That's what I heard. So I went first. It worked. Uh I think we kind of knew, but yeah, we added some more slings to what we had there, and and uh I said, I better go first.
SPEAKER_02So did you find uh others of different faiths or agnostic? What did you find?
SPEAKER_01You know, yeah, it's interesting to me that there's so many people who are either agnostic or um and we're in this incredibly beautiful place that I don't think just happened. You know, it's so intricately made and and it's just it's just one planet in the universe. And it's yeah, so it was it's unbelievable to me that there's not more Christians in the mountains or people who believe there's a God that formed this, but certainly run across the Buddhist religion, you know, in the mountains there in uh Nepal, also the Hindus, and um, you know, I've been trying to understand other religions along the way, all of them. I still come back to Christianity. I've been trying to read the Quran and read some of these other books. Um, love all the people in there, but I I keep coming back to Jesus saying, I am the way, the truth, and life. No one comes under the Father except through me. And also um uh just the whole forgiveness of sins things. I can't earn heaven. I can Jesus has already done that for me. And so it's nothing I can do for myself. In other religions, it seems to be works of righteousness that gets you somewhere. Um, I come back to that and I think I I can't save myself. I'm grateful for a God who will. And there's other reasons I'm convinced Jesus is God, and so I don't want to go into that. I know we're talking not talking about I I know some people dislike Christianity and I don't want to go off on that. Okay, but I can't separate myself from it because it's who I am.
SPEAKER_02And do you think some people went to the mountain or to climb the mountain to find God in whatever their thought God was?
SPEAKER_01I certainly think people go to the mountains because that's their church. Um, when it comes to I think serious mountain climbing, I think people are kind of a we're addicted. We're it's an addiction, I think. I'd have to say that it is somewhat of an addiction. Some people I think are addicted to the adventures, some maybe to the higher adrenaline of um addicted to danger. There's a book out there called Addicted to Danger. I would say I'm addicted to um adventure, not to danger. And so um, because I usually climb things that I know are within my ability. And so, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But um that is an interesting statement. Addicted to danger.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. There's a book out. Um, I can't remember the guy who wrote it. I read it and I thought, wow, he really pushes the limits where I I know my limits with a top rope on, and I won't go beyond that when I lead, um, because I'm afraid of getting hurt or dying. And uh I I do like to have some control, but I realize I I'm not in total control. Yeah, but I think um, yeah, I think it's more about um not so much religion. I think people really are very into climbing or addicted to it. It's an addiction, I think. Uh it certainly is.
SPEAKER_02Um when you now stand alone on a ridge or a glacier and and look out, um where does your mind go? Does it go to prayer or purpose or a peace? What comes to your mind?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um there is something about getting to the top. My peaks are much smaller than they used to be, and I'm a lot slower. Um, but I do there's something fun about getting to the top of something and looking down over everything. Maybe it's because I'm short, I don't know. But um it's uh I think it it's probably an accomplishment. You know, you've done this little thing and um you've gotten to the top, and it's probably a big ego thing, actually, you know, um probably more of a sinful thing than it is. But I uh it's fun being in the mountains. So I mean there's you know, you get to see God's creation, it's incredible. Um, you know, it's uh um, but yeah, when I get to the top, I guess you just feel some sort of an accomplishment, I suppose. Uh um there's probably you know, I look at it and I think, well, there's probably better things I could do, you know, go help the homeless, go do this and go do that. And um, you know, I help out at my church doing things here and there.
SPEAKER_02But um But Judy, you you inspire so many, and it's interesting. I I think that what you've gone through, and uh I can only imagine well, I can't imagine, I really can't, but you stood on seven of the highest summits in the world on every continent, and when you think back, which one of those mountains changed you the most? Did they change you or were you always there?
SPEAKER_01Let's see. Um, I think there's that constant within you that never changes. Um, probably, I mean, I've probably always been somewhat determined to do what I want to do. Um, always had God by my side. But yeah, you definitely change. You learn about yourself, right? You learn, you know, how high you can climb or what you can get up or how strong you are, or how strong you aren't, you know. Um, so yeah, you learn that about yourself. Um, how does it change you? Um for me, it's made me possibly more grateful, I think, especially the older you get when you look at what you've been allowed to go do. What um, you know, just what a privilege to be able to go do this stuff. Um so how does it change you? I certainly what's changed me more than anything are people out there uh that I've met, um, especially from other countries, you know. Um, just the wonderful people all over. Um that changes you. Um realizing that, you know, there's great people in all those countries, you know, people I met in Russia, they're wonderful people. I loved them. And um, yeah, the people in in New Guinea and places like that, they were. So yeah, and I I think it just makes you stop. That's that was the biggest change, you know, realizing what we have here in America when I traveled the world. Uh but as far as the peaks go, you know, I I suppose maybe it helps you at work because you realize, you know, you've made it through this, then this isn't so bad, you know.
SPEAKER_02Is there anything you can't think you could not accomplish after doing seven summits, the world?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, you know, there's like K2, I would never take that on. That's too difficult for me, and it's too scary for me. Um, you know, that's a lot of people die there. And um, there's routes I won't do because they're too difficult for me. Um yeah, um, yeah, it was interesting to have made Everest. I um yeah, you know, you I think it's just that progression. You climb higher and higher and you think, you know, I think I can get that high. Oh, I think I can get that high. You know, it's not like something you just go out and do.
SPEAKER_02You really think it's amazing that you didn't make Everest the first time, but you did it three times. Yeah, that's amazing to me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's kind of a crazy determination, though.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, I I probably got obsessed with it a little bit, but I really thought I could get to the top. And I thought I can get to the top safely and back down again is why I went. And like I said, I didn't go there without a prayer. Um, so God I remember I remember after I made the summit and I'm walking back down. And I know I got to get through the ice fall where people die. Lots of things could fall on you, avalanches and ice fall. And I'm walking towards the ice fall, and I just said, Well, God, you let me get to the top of this thing. Could you bring me home? And so I didn't walk in there without praying to God to keep me alive. Um, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_02Um Do you feel now that your climbs are smaller and slower?
SPEAKER_01Yep, I've definitely slowed down on my pace. And um, yeah, that's the other thing is um probably don't like pushing myself at altitude that much anymore. No, it's just uh it's a lot more work at 65. Um, I still enjoy getting out and and working hard to get up something, but I certainly not push myself as hard as I used to, and that's okay. You know, it's um progression of life, you know, we all change, and um just grateful to get out there again. You know, my joints start to hurt more and this and that, and I've got a 12 knee replacement. So, you know, our bodies change, and pretty soon I won't be able to do anything, and that's okay, you know.
SPEAKER_02You're 65 now.
SPEAKER_01I am, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And if if you were able to turn the clock back 25 years and you were 40 again, and having done what you've done, is there any route or any summit or any climb you wish you could do?
SPEAKER_01You know, um, probably the one peak that got away from me was Mount Robson up in Canada. And I attempted it a few times and I never went back. But if I were younger, I probably would have spent more time ice climbing and maybe attempted that one. Uh, but most of the stuff that I wanted to climb, I climbed. That one probably got away from me and oh, a few others, but not not too many. Um, but you know, there's only so much you can do. You gotta work for a living and you gotta, and then you get vacation time and you go climbing. And yeah, it's uh and it's okay. I I've done plenty and I'm I'm thankful for that.
SPEAKER_02And uh well, for the most part, Julie, those that will listen to this podcast, they may never climb a mountain, they may never experience the satisfaction, the success, or the just the accomplishment that you've experienced. I guess I'd like to ask, is there a lesson from your life that you'd want to share or have other people carry, even though their other people's lives may not be as monumental as yours?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I hate to put myself in monumental because I think everybody's life is important. Um, and people have other passions, right? Um, whether it be riding a horse or knitting, you know. I know some pretty amazing knitters, you know, and we would all say, well, you know, I I put them on a pedestal too, because I can't knit, you know, or piano. Who can play a piano? I can't. I mean, people who play a piano, I put them up here, right? But yeah, is there anything I learned from yeah, your question was, um, yeah, go back to your question again.
SPEAKER_02I I probably missed out on it, but well, is there is there anything you uh would share with that person that has not done something as monumental as you that you want them to hold on to?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I guess for anybody, whatever your passion is, you know, go do that if that's what you want to do. Um uh I it it is interesting how some people have a passion for something and some people not so much. And I don't think that the people with a great passion should be put any higher than someone who doesn't. You know, the stay-at-home mom to me is probably a far greater thing than what I've done, if you think about it, trying to raise a bunch of kids at home. And um I mean, that's a monumental task in itself, I can't imagine. And it's much more selfless than me going out and climbing, right? I it I have to look at climbing and think it's a pretty um selfish sport, really, you know. But I mean, you know, I tried to get around that by helping people make it up right near or do this or that. Um, but yeah, when you look at a a mom taking care of kids, what a monumental task that is, and what an important task that is to raise good kids, right? Um, and I think we look down on that in life sometimes. Um, and we shouldn't.
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, there's do you recall um when you summited a mountain or attempted to summit a mountain of thinking back of something either your mother or father said to you that inspired you to go on?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I think they didn't want me to go climbing. I think they're afraid I was gonna die. So I got no support from them for climbing. I mean, I think they supported me, but it's like I don't think they really wanted me to go. You know, um my mom was crying when I left for Everest, and so I felt bad about that. Um yeah, that was one of the one of the hardest things about climbing Everest was telling my mom where I'm going, right? Because she worries about you. And um, I think they supported me, but yeah, they didn't want you to go, right? Because they don't want you to die. And I get, I mean, I don't get that because I've never been a parent. But um no, I think they they supported all I did, but uh I think they'd rather I didn't become a mountain climber.
SPEAKER_02Well, Julie, you are truly one of the most remarkable women I've met. And I'm excuse me, I am um I am just in awe of what you've done, but also your faith and how your faith drove you, how it guided you, how it protected you, uh, your testament to what you've done and the faith that you've shown, I think really will inspire others. And even though I or we that listen to this program may not ever sum it any more than our local mountain or hill, we still can look to you and think, wow, she did it, and we can experience something just as much in our own way just because of what you've done and how you lived your faith.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You know, you think about how so many more people are doing the seven summits, they probably looked and saw, wow, she did that. I ought to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_02Well, good luck. Yeah. Well, Julie, thank you. I really appreciate you uh sharing. Is there anything else you'd like to share now that you've thought about that? Any other things you'd left out?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, not that I can think of, but um, oh I'll leave you with one little quote quote. It's um old climbers never quit, they just keep reaching their peak.
SPEAKER_02Good. Good. Well said. All right.
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